Comments on: Tim Keller’s “Country Parson”: The Small Dying Urban/Suburban Church Vs. The Small Country Church as a Training Ground For Mission http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:28:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Worth a Read: December 16 2009 | W. David Phillips http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-176140 Worth a Read: December 16 2009 | W. David Phillips Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:05:19 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-176140 [...] The Small Dying Urban/Suburban Church Vs. The Small Country Church as a Training Ground For Mission I recommend the small church as a place of ministry for young pastors and seminarians. In difference from Dr Tim Keller however, I recommend the small urban and/or suburban church (as opposed to the country small church). Most often, these urban/suburban churches are in a death spiral amidst the vestiges of post Christendom urban/suburban centers. The small country churches are in many cases hanging on and in some cases thriving in a still largely Christian friendly rural culture. [...] [...] The Small Dying Urban/Suburban Church Vs. The Small Country Church as a Training Ground For Mission I recommend the small church as a place of ministry for young pastors and seminarians. In difference from Dr Tim Keller however, I recommend the small urban and/or suburban church (as opposed to the country small church). Most often, these urban/suburban churches are in a death spiral amidst the vestiges of post Christendom urban/suburban centers. The small country churches are in many cases hanging on and in some cases thriving in a still largely Christian friendly rural culture. [...]

]]> By: K. Rex Butts http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15451 K. Rex Butts Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:56:14 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15451 I have worked in both the rural-country context where christendom is still very much alive and in the more urban-collegiate context of a post-Christian, multi-ethnic culture. While there are some major differences, it seems like many of those differences are rooted in similar problems. For instance, both types of cultures are living out of a world-view which I believe differs from the biblical worldview. While the christendom context may utilize more Christian/Biblical vocabulary to speak of their story, I believe that body of language means now and what it means in the Bible are different (and sometime very different). If this is the case (and I may be oversimplifying the case) would it not seem then that to counter both worldviews with the biblical worldview would require a confrontation with the gospel-the redemptive story of God in history along with its goal and intent? If so, then it seems that many of the required skills necessary (i.e., preaching, mentoring, etc...) could be honed in either context. What would seem not to translate so well would be the questions we raise that undermine the different unbiblical worldviews and the contextualized response we make. Grace and peace, Rex I have worked in both the rural-country context where christendom is still very much alive and in the more urban-collegiate context of a post-Christian, multi-ethnic culture. While there are some major differences, it seems like many of those differences are rooted in similar problems. For instance, both types of cultures are living out of a world-view which I believe differs from the biblical worldview. While the christendom context may utilize more Christian/Biblical vocabulary to speak of their story, I believe that body of language means now and what it means in the Bible are different (and sometime very different).

If this is the case (and I may be oversimplifying the case) would it not seem then that to counter both worldviews with the biblical worldview would require a confrontation with the gospel-the redemptive story of God in history along with its goal and intent? If so, then it seems that many of the required skills necessary (i.e., preaching, mentoring, etc…) could be honed in either context. What would seem not to translate so well would be the questions we raise that undermine the different unbiblical worldviews and the contextualized response we make.

Grace and peace,

Rex

]]> By: Matt Johnson http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15436 Matt Johnson Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:49:36 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15436 Dave--now you're speaking to my world. Small, urban church, lots of hurting people, lot's of Christendom remainders both helping and hurting the mission of the church. People aren't there for a show, but still have conflicting views on what the point of a Sunday service is, where ministry happens, etc. It's a tough transition to make, but very worthwhile and rewarding. Dave–now you’re speaking to my world. Small, urban church, lots of hurting people, lot’s of Christendom remainders both helping and hurting the mission of the church. People aren’t there for a show, but still have conflicting views on what the point of a Sunday service is, where ministry happens, etc. It’s a tough transition to make, but very worthwhile and rewarding.

]]> By: len http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15433 len Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:34:05 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15433 Interesting.. we are only beginning to make connections locally with the mainline churches.. but already I see potential.. Interesting.. we are only beginning to make connections locally with the mainline churches.. but already I see potential..

]]> By: David Fitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15372 David Fitch Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:45:47 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15372 Richard, I see Missional Anglicanism as a partner (ironically)in navigating post Christendom with NeoAnabaptists. Their great resourses for spiritual formation (in liturgy etc.) ground us in the history and narrative in ways modernist frameworks emanating from Reformed portestantism can't.Of course, there are issues (tere always are). But for those of us who see Enlightenment modernity - and its allignment with Christendom - as the problem ... it will take the joint resources of anabaptist and liturgical traditions to move forward into Mission. I see Todd Hunter and what he is doing in AMIA as an excellent example here Richard,
I see Missional Anglicanism as a partner (ironically)in navigating post Christendom with NeoAnabaptists. Their great resourses for spiritual formation (in liturgy etc.) ground us in the history and narrative in ways modernist frameworks emanating from Reformed portestantism can’t.Of course, there are issues (tere always are). But for those of us who see Enlightenment modernity – and its allignment with Christendom – as the problem … it will take the joint resources of anabaptist and liturgical traditions to move forward into Mission. I see Todd Hunter and what he is doing in AMIA as an excellent example here

]]> By: Richard Yale http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15338 Richard Yale Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:29:38 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15338 A bit off topic, although not entirely, but how would you characterize missional Anglicanism (were such a creature to exist)? Would it be a subset of the Neo-Reformed Missional? A bit off topic, although not entirely, but how would you characterize missional Anglicanism (were such a creature to exist)? Would it be a subset of the Neo-Reformed Missional?

]]> By: len http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15337 len Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:15:46 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15337 In our small western Canadian city (120,000) in the last four years two small churches closed their doors and two more are nearly there. One large church has dwindled from 800 (2005) to 250.. though half the numbers have transferred to the two large churches in town... In our small western Canadian city (120,000) in the last four years two small churches closed their doors and two more are nearly there. One large church has dwindled from 800 (2005) to 250.. though half the numbers have transferred to the two large churches in town…

]]> By: Maria Kirby http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15322 Maria Kirby Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:31:24 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15322 Would there be a way to engage the largely retired membership of these urban/suburban churches to become bivocational ministers? These older persons have heard the gospel many times; they have an income to support themselves; how could they be given a voice in their communities. Maybe they only know how to connect with people their age, so even if they made friendships/ministered to those of their age, they might be building bridges to the next generation since most elderly people have family who are younger. Would there be a way to engage the largely retired membership of these urban/suburban churches to become bivocational ministers? These older persons have heard the gospel many times; they have an income to support themselves; how could they be given a voice in their communities. Maybe they only know how to connect with people their age, so even if they made friendships/ministered to those of their age, they might be building bridges to the next generation since most elderly people have family who are younger.

]]> By: davidfitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15310 davidfitch Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:40:43 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15310 Well ... Jonathon ... yes the statistics (rounded off) refer to C&MA and were what I heard presented in a recent meeting. I don't know if they've been released to all workers yet? and Josh, my denomination (in which I am ordained in) is the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Josh as far as why Neo-Reformed gravitate towards positional leadership and Ananaptist gravitate towards more dispersed commuanl flat leadership forms - there's a lot of profound theological and historical reasons. One historical reason is that Reformed theology is a reaction to/but highly dependent upon Christendom for ts cultural understandings, Anabaptist rejects the Christendom forms of polity, cultural relationships. One theological reason is that Reformed theology sees authority in the BIble alone lifted up above the church and accessible to each individual. Yet this modern construct privledges the skills of exegesis and correct intrprettaion so the professiional takes on a natural prominence. The Anabaptist sees interprettaive autority located more in the community, surely the gifted preacher teacher, but as empowered by the Spirit and recognizied by the community. Authoirty is by nature deventralized. There are much more in depth issues here.. which perhaps I can do an extended post on some day. Well …
Jonathon … yes the statistics (rounded off) refer to C&MA and were what I heard presented in a recent meeting. I don’t know if they’ve been released to all workers yet?
and Josh, my denomination (in which I am ordained in) is the Christian and Missionary Alliance.
Josh as far as why Neo-Reformed gravitate towards positional leadership and Ananaptist gravitate towards more dispersed commuanl flat leadership forms – there’s a lot of profound theological and historical reasons. One historical reason is that Reformed theology is a reaction to/but highly dependent upon Christendom for ts cultural understandings, Anabaptist rejects the Christendom forms of polity, cultural relationships. One theological reason is that Reformed theology sees authority in the BIble alone lifted up above the church and accessible to each individual. Yet this modern construct privledges the skills of exegesis and correct intrprettaion so the professiional takes on a natural prominence. The Anabaptist sees interprettaive autority located more in the community, surely the gifted preacher teacher, but as empowered by the Spirit and recognizied by the community. Authoirty is by nature deventralized. There are much more in depth issues here.. which perhaps I can do an extended post on some day.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/tim-keller%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccountry-parson%e2%80%9d-a-neo-anabaptist-missional-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-15298 Jonathan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:25:40 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=765#comment-15298 David, I appreciate your writing. I am a lay leader in a smallish suburban C&MA church in Michigan and we are struggling to find ways to transition to a missional mindset. One point wasn't clear to me: Are the statistics you cite findings regarding C&MA churches, or are they broader statistics (say, about evangelical churches in general)? What I mean is, does "Only the top 20% of all churches are growing" mean that the top 20% of C&MA churches are growing, or the top 20% of some other broader category? David,

I appreciate your writing. I am a lay leader in a smallish suburban C&MA church in Michigan and we are struggling to find ways to transition to a missional mindset.

One point wasn’t clear to me: Are the statistics you cite findings regarding C&MA churches, or are they broader statistics (say, about evangelical churches in general)?

What I mean is, does “Only the top 20% of all churches are growing” mean that the top 20% of C&MA churches are growing, or the top 20% of some other broader category?

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