On the gathering, I believe the gathering is essential for spiritual formation of missional communities. Some of my co-workers in missional stuff disagree, but I see the organic gatherings litrugically driven as simply powerful shapers of individuals into the Body for His mission. There areother reasons why I think the gathering is a part of wht it means to be incarnational. Having said that, it is very difficult to keep it from going attractional giving the overwhelming forces of American consumer society. I hope to blog on some things we’re talking about doing at our place (www.lifeonthevine.org) to keep this attractiona things from happening.
I do believe a larger gathering (250 or so) is possible, and everyone still know each other, and for local missional orders to inhabit neighborhoods … BUT ANY LARGER THATN THIS … I think you are presented wih some insurmountable hurdles to being a incarnational missionally driven community.
I’m learning more and more about these things as I go.

Blessings on your labors

wouldn’t there be a size limit to the type of larger gathering that could maintain of sense of commonness, community, and mission? in other words, what is the threshold to plant other churches/sites before you get so large that you’ve become primarily attractional and minimally missional?

been following you for some time now. i resonate with so much of what you write about.

i am in the infancy stage of putting together ministry philosophy for a future church plant prospectus. i am in the middle of reading hirsch/frost “the shaping of things to come…” and reading some thoughts about missional communities from the likes of drew goodmanson at kaleo in san diego and michael stewart at austin stone in austin. it’s really challenging me to think deeply about the type of dna that i want in the lifeblood of this church. it’s opportune that you are posting your thoughts on this issue. maybe, providential…

i know alot of the discussion regarding this issue is that we don’t need to plant any more church services – which is what many new church plants essentially are – but rather stimulate a future church gathering with the types of missional communities – I assume – you are describing. in other words, the goal is not to eventually turn these missional communities into an attractional worship service but rather sustain a larger gathering through these organic, incarnational, reproducing communities.

i would love to see you unpack your ecclesiology dna. Since church planting is essentially starting from scratch, how would you philosophically start so as to keep the heart of mission at the forefront of your church?

here are some questions i have:

what is a church to you biblically? what happens when you have a few communities that could start coming together for a larger gathering? at what point do you cross that threshold? does it involve a corporate gathering of some kind? what do those gatherings look like? how do you keep the missional community dna from being taken over by the mentality that we ‘go’ to church? can a church be attractional and missional/incarnational? if so, what is your definition of attractional? how are missional communities different from house/cell churches? aren’t there things that a larger gathering of missional communities can do that individual missional communities can’t do?

i hope you get the gist of my ‘line’ of questions. i see the supreme value in not planting another church service, but it seems that at some point, when you do begin to gather as a larger group, the missional dna has a tendency to shift towards a ‘we go to church,’ rather than a ‘we are the church’ mentality. it seems almost impossible given the past and current culture of the Evangelical church – even if you try to do the right thing on the front end.

thx in advance for any help you would be so kind to give!

Peace,
Jamie