<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Should We Chase After Christians Who Come to Our Sunday Gathering When They Do Not Feel Welcome?: When They Will Not Come 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:37:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Choose or Chosen for Community? &#171; Leaving Normal Behind</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8159</link>
		<dc:creator>Choose or Chosen for Community? &#171; Leaving Normal Behind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-8159</guid>
		<description>[...] of my reaction to Erwin McManus&#8217;s quote was compounded by a blog entry by David Fitch called, &#8220;Should We Chase After Christians Who Come to Our Sunday Gathering When They Do Not Feel Welco....  The post hit a nerve because, well, I find myself in that description. Now, there is much I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of my reaction to Erwin McManus&#8217;s quote was compounded by a blog entry by David Fitch called, &#8220;Should We Chase After Christians Who Come to Our Sunday Gathering When They Do Not Feel Welco&#8230;.  The post hit a nerve because, well, I find myself in that description. Now, there is much I [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: More notes on evangelism proper &#124; Carpe Cakem!</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7294</link>
		<dc:creator>More notes on evangelism proper &#124; Carpe Cakem!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-7294</guid>
		<description>[...] really lays it down in THIS post about how real community is NEVER easy to break in to. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] really lays it down in THIS post about how real community is NEVER easy to break in to. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fran Leeman</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5657</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Leeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5657</guid>
		<description>Great post, great comments.  There is a balance here... we certainly can&#039;t use being missional as an excuse for not being relational and welcoming, but neither can we go back to chasing down consumer Christians.  In our seeker days, our church did not cultivate much sense of God&#039;s presence in Sunday gatherings, now it is what we gather people around, including open-hearted &quot;seekers&quot;.  I think one of the inherent problems with &quot;seeker-church&quot; was that having sucked people in by appealing to their own self-focus, it was almost impossible then to disciple them in the ways of a God who is telling a bigger story.  I&#039;m not sure we have to resign to shrinking in numbers to be missional, but we definitely have to learn to grow with people who are attracted to the God who is restoring all things (not just our American dream).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, great comments.  There is a balance here&#8230; we certainly can&#8217;t use being missional as an excuse for not being relational and welcoming, but neither can we go back to chasing down consumer Christians.  In our seeker days, our church did not cultivate much sense of God&#8217;s presence in Sunday gatherings, now it is what we gather people around, including open-hearted &#8220;seekers&#8221;.  I think one of the inherent problems with &#8220;seeker-church&#8221; was that having sucked people in by appealing to their own self-focus, it was almost impossible then to disciple them in the ways of a God who is telling a bigger story.  I&#8217;m not sure we have to resign to shrinking in numbers to be missional, but we definitely have to learn to grow with people who are attracted to the God who is restoring all things (not just our American dream).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5655</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5655</guid>
		<description>Dave, 

considering that we are in the transition period from Christendom to post-christendom,  there is a complicated relationship with the people known as &#039;greeters&#039; and the community of believers being built w/in a church.  I agree with your statement about not chasing believers (and how this was somewhat necessary for you early planting years to create a base), but the fact remains that many missionaly focused congregations tend to attract the wounded and disenchanted believers.  Although some of these believers may be shoppers, others (including a strong core at Life on the Vine, from Trinity and surrounding schools) are committed people, yet may need some help assimilating into the quasi-community that a church in suburbs offer.

Using the family illustration, these people are the neighbors who watch the thanksgiving dinners through the window and wish to become a part of the feast.

I guess I&#039;m just wondering how we can be inviting to Non-christians, but also not turn away some amazing people because all of the relational effort falls on their shoulders?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, </p>
<p>considering that we are in the transition period from Christendom to post-christendom,  there is a complicated relationship with the people known as &#8216;greeters&#8217; and the community of believers being built w/in a church.  I agree with your statement about not chasing believers (and how this was somewhat necessary for you early planting years to create a base), but the fact remains that many missionaly focused congregations tend to attract the wounded and disenchanted believers.  Although some of these believers may be shoppers, others (including a strong core at Life on the Vine, from Trinity and surrounding schools) are committed people, yet may need some help assimilating into the quasi-community that a church in suburbs offer.</p>
<p>Using the family illustration, these people are the neighbors who watch the thanksgiving dinners through the window and wish to become a part of the feast.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m just wondering how we can be inviting to Non-christians, but also not turn away some amazing people because all of the relational effort falls on their shoulders?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Nored</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5489</link>
		<dc:creator>James Nored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 15:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5489</guid>
		<description>Hi David. I &quot;met&quot; you in a phone interview in Dr. Keith Matthew&#039;s class on postmodernism at Fuller last November. I was really looking forward to your class on church planting--I hope that this can be rescheduled soon!

Interesting thoughts here. So, what size do you think the church must stay at to really maintain a sense of community? Also, what do you think of multiple house group type of gatherings that come together say, once a month, for a celebratory worship? Is the sense of community still possible in this context? 

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David. I &#8220;met&#8221; you in a phone interview in Dr. Keith Matthew&#8217;s class on postmodernism at Fuller last November. I was really looking forward to your class on church planting&#8211;I hope that this can be rescheduled soon!</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts here. So, what size do you think the church must stay at to really maintain a sense of community? Also, what do you think of multiple house group type of gatherings that come together say, once a month, for a celebratory worship? Is the sense of community still possible in this context? </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Linkworthy - 5/10/09 &#124; MattCleaver.com</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkworthy - 5/10/09 &#124; MattCleaver.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 16:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5358</guid>
		<description>[...] On church hospitality teams - David Fitch says it is a false expectation for people to be integrated into a church community in a few visits. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On church hospitality teams &#8211; David Fitch says it is a false expectation for people to be integrated into a church community in a few visits. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5255</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5255</guid>
		<description>This sounds more like how it should be - kind of like the gathering is for people who already know Christ and actually being the church happens everyday.

This form of community would take away from the &quot;show&quot; and put more emphasis on being a community and getting to know each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds more like how it should be &#8211; kind of like the gathering is for people who already know Christ and actually being the church happens everyday.</p>
<p>This form of community would take away from the &#8220;show&#8221; and put more emphasis on being a community and getting to know each other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5241</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 17:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5241</guid>
		<description>Josh, 
On a purely numerical number, the answer is obvious. Others can testify to this, but numbers will go down. On the other hand, the kind of change in numbers you are experiencing can only be described as addition by subtraction. You church will become a &quot;powder keg&quot; of H. S. enlivened activity in Christ&#039;s Mission. Your church then qualifies as an example of the principle we grow by getting smaller. Of course, there will be other adjustments necessary and over the long term, eventually &quot;church seeding&quot; from your church (asking people to leave in groups to start new and smaller communities) becomes the means to further propogate God&#039;s Mission in the world. 
peace bro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,<br />
On a purely numerical number, the answer is obvious. Others can testify to this, but numbers will go down. On the other hand, the kind of change in numbers you are experiencing can only be described as addition by subtraction. You church will become a &#8220;powder keg&#8221; of H. S. enlivened activity in Christ&#8217;s Mission. Your church then qualifies as an example of the principle we grow by getting smaller. Of course, there will be other adjustments necessary and over the long term, eventually &#8220;church seeding&#8221; from your church (asking people to leave in groups to start new and smaller communities) becomes the means to further propogate God&#8217;s Mission in the world.<br />
peace bro</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh Rowley</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5240</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Rowley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 17:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5240</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have made it a habit not to chase every Christian visitor to our church (this is different from when I was first starting the church and was seeking to gather a people). There are simply many Christians who are looking for something that we cannot and probably should not offer. I do not often chase Christians, who after a time with us, choose to leave.&quot;

This post is bold. My fellow pastor and I have chased after many Christians in recent years--it has simply seemed like the obvious thing to do. Sadly, most of these people have been in your second category--Christians who left &quot;after a time with us&quot; (sometimes a time of many years!). Rarely have these people changed their minds about their decision to leave.

This fact brings me to a question: How often does the move to missional lead to a decline in numbers? I suspect that it is one of the reasons for our numerical decline, as our preaching and teaching have become more prophetic (in the sense of challenging things like consumerism), and many of the persons who have left have gone down the street to the consumer-driven megachurch that offers many choices--including a swimming pool and tennis courts!

Have others experienced numerical decline that they trace to becoming missional?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have made it a habit not to chase every Christian visitor to our church (this is different from when I was first starting the church and was seeking to gather a people). There are simply many Christians who are looking for something that we cannot and probably should not offer. I do not often chase Christians, who after a time with us, choose to leave.&#8221;</p>
<p>This post is bold. My fellow pastor and I have chased after many Christians in recent years&#8211;it has simply seemed like the obvious thing to do. Sadly, most of these people have been in your second category&#8211;Christians who left &#8220;after a time with us&#8221; (sometimes a time of many years!). Rarely have these people changed their minds about their decision to leave.</p>
<p>This fact brings me to a question: How often does the move to missional lead to a decline in numbers? I suspect that it is one of the reasons for our numerical decline, as our preaching and teaching have become more prophetic (in the sense of challenging things like consumerism), and many of the persons who have left have gone down the street to the consumer-driven megachurch that offers many choices&#8211;including a swimming pool and tennis courts!</p>
<p>Have others experienced numerical decline that they trace to becoming missional?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brianmpei</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/should-we-chase-after-christians-who-come-to-our-sunday-gathering-when-they-do-not-feel-welcome-when-they-will-not-come-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5236</link>
		<dc:creator>Brianmpei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 15:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=467#comment-5236</guid>
		<description>I think this is spot on.  I would suggest that there are some family gatherings I&#039;ve been to, other than my own, where I felt welcomed and others where I did not so there&#039;s still relational issues for us to pay attention to.  But it&#039;s silly to think that everyone who happens by for a Sunday will connect - for various reasons - but especially relational ones.  Pastors and communities get discouraged though and feel like there must be something &quot;wrong&quot; if others don&#039;t feel attracted to the group.  Again, the family gathering is very useful here.  

One of the dangers of a smaller family gathering is that you can&#039;t hide out and smaller missional churches have to accept that some folks prefer to blend in to a crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is spot on.  I would suggest that there are some family gatherings I&#8217;ve been to, other than my own, where I felt welcomed and others where I did not so there&#8217;s still relational issues for us to pay attention to.  But it&#8217;s silly to think that everyone who happens by for a Sunday will connect &#8211; for various reasons &#8211; but especially relational ones.  Pastors and communities get discouraged though and feel like there must be something &#8220;wrong&#8221; if others don&#8217;t feel attracted to the group.  Again, the family gathering is very useful here.  </p>
<p>One of the dangers of a smaller family gathering is that you can&#8217;t hide out and smaller missional churches have to accept that some folks prefer to blend in to a crowd.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
