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	<title>Comments on: OUR WORST HOUSEGATHERING IS OUR BEST HOUSEGATHERING: Tales from the Missional Front</title>
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		<title>By: Jason Hesiak</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hesiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1031</guid>
		<description>Oh, I should mention/explain...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My current roommate and I are considering not being roommates anymore.  Not because we hate each other or anything, but more just because we are so different and &quot;incompatible&quot; (and because my roommate is moving in a different direction, if you will...he wants to buy a house).  Which obviously relates to this post.  I think the whole point of this post is to let the Holy fire of God forge a unity in Him rather than in our own self-interests/&quot;compatabilities.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Interestngly...I hadn&#039;t considered moving out until last night&#039;s conversation.  But when I consider it, though, I relish the thought of getting away from the big screen HD TV with &quot;on demand&quot; cable (which regularly features UFC bouts and reruns of The Fast and the Furious and such things), the computer, all the extra space (which he thinks of as cramped).  All these things he takes for granted as being good, and can&#039;t really image why anyone would not like them in some way.  That&#039;s what I meant above by being &quot;confronted with my own version of selfishness.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To me such differences are even still &quot;compatable&quot;...if he were &quot;missional minded.&quot;  How do you forge a unity through differences with folks who don&#039;t really think of it like that (even when they are Christian)?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I am not asking for advice (unless anyone feels so moved).  I just see a relation between my situation and this post and comment conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I should mention/explain&#8230;</p>
<p>My current roommate and I are considering not being roommates anymore.  Not because we hate each other or anything, but more just because we are so different and &#8220;incompatible&#8221; (and because my roommate is moving in a different direction, if you will&#8230;he wants to buy a house).  Which obviously relates to this post.  I think the whole point of this post is to let the Holy fire of God forge a unity in Him rather than in our own self-interests/&#8221;compatabilities.&#8221;</p>
<p>Interestngly&#8230;I hadn&#8217;t considered moving out until last night&#8217;s conversation.  But when I consider it, though, I relish the thought of getting away from the big screen HD TV with &#8220;on demand&#8221; cable (which regularly features UFC bouts and reruns of The Fast and the Furious and such things), the computer, all the extra space (which he thinks of as cramped).  All these things he takes for granted as being good, and can&#8217;t really image why anyone would not like them in some way.  That&#8217;s what I meant above by being &#8220;confronted with my own version of selfishness.&#8221;</p>
<p>To me such differences are even still &#8220;compatable&#8221;&#8230;if he were &#8220;missional minded.&#8221;  How do you forge a unity through differences with folks who don&#8217;t really think of it like that (even when they are Christian)?</p>
<p>I am not asking for advice (unless anyone feels so moved).  I just see a relation between my situation and this post and comment conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hesiak</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1030</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hesiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1030</guid>
		<description>I like this post, of course.  Its not an EASY message, but its true, I think.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And yet I am still struggling with it.  Besides my own self centeredness to deal with...not in terms of the question of a house church...but in terms of my actual house...my roommate is a young professionaly commercial real estate agent...who isn&#039;t &quot;missional minded.&quot;  We don&#039;t exactly have much in common.  Problem is, what we don&#039;t have in common is that we aren&#039;t missional minded...and his selfhodd and life is an investment in all that I...uummm...loathe.  And that wouldn&#039;t even be a problem...TO ME...if he seemed OPEN to something ELSE.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For example...I used to live with an engineer.  Being an architect...he and I are also very different...in some of the same ways as he and my current roommate.  But over time we both grew and came together, and we both made concessions, and I would hear him make comments in which I would realize that he was mentally QUESTIONING his own materialism.  So that made it comfortable enough...over a long period of time...that we can talk about the important issues.  And now we are VERY VERY good friends.  And yet we still avoid conversations about capitalism and consumerism.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But with my current roommate...I see no such openness or questioning...and I don&#039;t really know how to approach that.  Its kind of confusing to me.  It confronts me with my own version of selfishness; and yet at the same time it makes me wonder if I need to be more assertive.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Again, none of that applies to the house CHURCH, but instead to the HOUSE.  But I would think that the questions would be valuable.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Blessings,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Jason</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this post, of course.  Its not an EASY message, but its true, I think.</p>
<p>And yet I am still struggling with it.  Besides my own self centeredness to deal with&#8230;not in terms of the question of a house church&#8230;but in terms of my actual house&#8230;my roommate is a young professionaly commercial real estate agent&#8230;who isn&#8217;t &#8220;missional minded.&#8221;  We don&#8217;t exactly have much in common.  Problem is, what we don&#8217;t have in common is that we aren&#8217;t missional minded&#8230;and his selfhodd and life is an investment in all that I&#8230;uummm&#8230;loathe.  And that wouldn&#8217;t even be a problem&#8230;TO ME&#8230;if he seemed OPEN to something ELSE.</p>
<p>For example&#8230;I used to live with an engineer.  Being an architect&#8230;he and I are also very different&#8230;in some of the same ways as he and my current roommate.  But over time we both grew and came together, and we both made concessions, and I would hear him make comments in which I would realize that he was mentally QUESTIONING his own materialism.  So that made it comfortable enough&#8230;over a long period of time&#8230;that we can talk about the important issues.  And now we are VERY VERY good friends.  And yet we still avoid conversations about capitalism and consumerism.</p>
<p>But with my current roommate&#8230;I see no such openness or questioning&#8230;and I don&#8217;t really know how to approach that.  Its kind of confusing to me.  It confronts me with my own version of selfishness; and yet at the same time it makes me wonder if I need to be more assertive.</p>
<p>Again, none of that applies to the house CHURCH, but instead to the HOUSE.  But I would think that the questions would be valuable.</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Jason</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>Sheila ... i think I agree with your sense of collaboration and what can happen mkissionally out of that. I think I suggest that mission can be that focus upon which a disparate group can become unified and empowered by God&#039;s Spirit and become a community. Likewise. I see mission as joining in many times with an affinity like you described at the library. And yet this comunity for a different telos...?.. &lt;br/&gt;anyways ... that was a much needed defining of some subtleties for this conversation. Thanks !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheila &#8230; i think I agree with your sense of collaboration and what can happen mkissionally out of that. I think I suggest that mission can be that focus upon which a disparate group can become unified and empowered by God&#8217;s Spirit and become a community. Likewise. I see mission as joining in many times with an affinity like you described at the library. And yet this comunity for a different telos&#8230;?.. <br />anyways &#8230; that was a much needed defining of some subtleties for this conversation. Thanks !</p>
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		<title>By: Sheila Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1028</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheila Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1028</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;D&lt;/b&gt;eo volente&lt;/i&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s <i><b>D</b>eo volente</i>!</p>
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		<title>By: Sheila Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheila Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 05:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>Dave, your post and all the comments here are quite challenging. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I claim no supreme wisdom on this subject just years of attempting to connect with people. I don&#039;t know if I&#039;ll be able to articulate this accurately, but it seems to me that the idea of a common interest or affinity need not, &lt;i&gt;ipso facto&lt;/i&gt;, be self-serving. It can, indeed, be a selfless  instrument for achieving some level of comfort for those we are attempting to bring into a group, even conferring a social edge to people who may not otherwise be socially confident or versatile.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I participate in a library discussion group which requires me to read titles I may not otherwise choose to read. It&#039;s an especial sacrifice for me when I have such limited time to read and a long list of books which I would desperately &lt;b&gt;prefer&lt;/b&gt; to read. (Perhaps the Lord will not count it against my life span?) &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But this investment gives me a connection point to strangers, and that connection point offers the promise of further connections and deeper discussions. It&#039;s my way to &quot;hang out&quot; with strangers and see what God wants to do with me.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps this would not surprise anyone who has studied group dynamics, but it surprised me. The discussion group that began last fall included a very odd assortment of geographically, professionally, economically, culturally, educationally, maritally diverse folk whose differences were further exaggerated by diametrically opposite personalities. I really didn&#039;t hold out much hope for this one, but I plugged along. To further my hopelessness, the group leader was neither a strong personality nor a facilitator. (Let&#039;s hope she&#039;s not reading this blog!)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What made this motley crew eventually &quot;click&quot; was not gifted leadership nor even primarily the literature we were discussing. I believe that the real cohesion for us was our mutual investment in hours of reading &lt;b&gt;for the others&lt;/b&gt; (many reading more than the required 2 books prior to each meeting). This honoring of the group covenant made us respect and appreciate each other and eventually open other areas of our lives to one another.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps the group that starts up this fall will develop along entirely differently lines and force me to very different conclusions. Howe&#039;er that may be, I plan (&lt;i&gt;deo volente&lt;/i&gt;) to be there, to do my &quot;missional&quot; reading and see what God wants to do with me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, your post and all the comments here are quite challenging. </p>
<p>I claim no supreme wisdom on this subject just years of attempting to connect with people. I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;ll be able to articulate this accurately, but it seems to me that the idea of a common interest or affinity need not, <i>ipso facto</i>, be self-serving. It can, indeed, be a selfless  instrument for achieving some level of comfort for those we are attempting to bring into a group, even conferring a social edge to people who may not otherwise be socially confident or versatile.</p>
<p>I participate in a library discussion group which requires me to read titles I may not otherwise choose to read. It&#8217;s an especial sacrifice for me when I have such limited time to read and a long list of books which I would desperately <b>prefer</b> to read. (Perhaps the Lord will not count it against my life span?) </p>
<p>But this investment gives me a connection point to strangers, and that connection point offers the promise of further connections and deeper discussions. It&#8217;s my way to &#8220;hang out&#8221; with strangers and see what God wants to do with me.</p>
<p>Perhaps this would not surprise anyone who has studied group dynamics, but it surprised me. The discussion group that began last fall included a very odd assortment of geographically, professionally, economically, culturally, educationally, maritally diverse folk whose differences were further exaggerated by diametrically opposite personalities. I really didn&#8217;t hold out much hope for this one, but I plugged along. To further my hopelessness, the group leader was neither a strong personality nor a facilitator. (Let&#8217;s hope she&#8217;s not reading this blog!)</p>
<p>What made this motley crew eventually &#8220;click&#8221; was not gifted leadership nor even primarily the literature we were discussing. I believe that the real cohesion for us was our mutual investment in hours of reading <b>for the others</b> (many reading more than the required 2 books prior to each meeting). This honoring of the group covenant made us respect and appreciate each other and eventually open other areas of our lives to one another.</p>
<p>Perhaps the group that starts up this fall will develop along entirely differently lines and force me to very different conclusions. Howe&#8217;er that may be, I plan (<i>deo volente</i>) to be there, to do my &#8220;missional&#8221; reading and see what God wants to do with me!</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Kirby</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1026</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1026</guid>
		<description>Some of us need to practice getting along where the circumstances are highly in favor of the chances that we will get along before we jump into  more complicated ones.  Some of us have a hard enough time getting along with friends, especially in close quarters, extended lengths of time, or stressful situations, without the added difficulty of trying to relate to those who are very different. I suppose it takes some discernment to determine how much of a maturity step we are asking people to take.  I suppose it also depends on how much encouragement/ support a person gets to make such a maturity step.&lt;br/&gt;Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of us need to practice getting along where the circumstances are highly in favor of the chances that we will get along before we jump into  more complicated ones.  Some of us have a hard enough time getting along with friends, especially in close quarters, extended lengths of time, or stressful situations, without the added difficulty of trying to relate to those who are very different. I suppose it takes some discernment to determine how much of a maturity step we are asking people to take.  I suppose it also depends on how much encouragement/ support a person gets to make such a maturity step.<br />Peace</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1025</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1025</guid>
		<description>For a community to be &quot;Christ-centered,&quot; there actually has to be a need for Jesus in people&#039;s relationships with one another.  He actually has to matter, and really has to do his saving and reconciling work in relationships for him to be &quot;the center.&quot;  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Though this seems obvious, few of our community initiatives in the church recognize this base reality, let alone build their programs on it.  Instead, it seems like we do as much as we can to &quot;lighten Jesus&#039; load&quot; and &quot;set Him up for success&quot; if you will--by working as hard as we can to put people together that will &quot;get along.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the above paragraphs might hold the record for &quot;phrases in quotation.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Anyways, I lived in a community for three years in Denver--called the Downing House--and I wholeheartedly agree that Matt &amp; David have a valid premise and argument here.  The result of living and working together with a group of people that you just plain don&#039;t naturally get along with is this: God gets the glory for what he&#039;s doing with and through the community, because each individual knows that without the real presence and influence of His Spirit, it&#039;d be a meaningless disaster. (It&#039;s still usually a disaster, even with His Spirit... but it&#039;s anything but meaningless!)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a community to be &#8220;Christ-centered,&#8221; there actually has to be a need for Jesus in people&#8217;s relationships with one another.  He actually has to matter, and really has to do his saving and reconciling work in relationships for him to be &#8220;the center.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Though this seems obvious, few of our community initiatives in the church recognize this base reality, let alone build their programs on it.  Instead, it seems like we do as much as we can to &#8220;lighten Jesus&#8217; load&#8221; and &#8220;set Him up for success&#8221; if you will&#8211;by working as hard as we can to put people together that will &#8220;get along.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the above paragraphs might hold the record for &#8220;phrases in quotation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyways, I lived in a community for three years in Denver&#8211;called the Downing House&#8211;and I wholeheartedly agree that Matt &#038; David have a valid premise and argument here.  The result of living and working together with a group of people that you just plain don&#8217;t naturally get along with is this: God gets the glory for what he&#8217;s doing with and through the community, because each individual knows that without the real presence and influence of His Spirit, it&#8217;d be a meaningless disaster. (It&#8217;s still usually a disaster, even with His Spirit&#8230; but it&#8217;s anything but meaningless!)</p>
<p>Thanks for the post.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>David,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Loved this post--I would say what you are talking about--whether it is a housegathering or just one-on-one, is the fine art and practice of Christian friendship, same gender, or cross-gender--that is completely unlike secular (or pop evangelical) versions of friendships where one has to &quot;click,&quot; or one has to be &quot;attracted&quot; to the other, initially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Loved this post&#8211;I would say what you are talking about&#8211;whether it is a housegathering or just one-on-one, is the fine art and practice of Christian friendship, same gender, or cross-gender&#8211;that is completely unlike secular (or pop evangelical) versions of friendships where one has to &#8220;click,&#8221; or one has to be &#8220;attracted&#8221; to the other, initially.</p>
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		<title>By: spamthewunderdog</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>spamthewunderdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>Hey David,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I am on the beginning edge of moving from the Michigan City Indiana, about 45 minutes from Chicago, to Portland Oregan around the 1st of the year to help plant a Church.  I am going to be heading up our Micro-Church, Home Church environment, and some other related tasks.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have always done &quot;small groups&quot; in the traditional sense (affinity, age-based, etc...) and want to move more towards doing groups as you described that are based in Neighborhoods and are geographically based.  But this is something that is out of my comfort zone and I was wondering if I might talk to you and/or your other pastor partners about how you guys are doing that.  I need a brain to pick...&lt;br/&gt;email me at transformission@hotmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey David,</p>
<p>I am on the beginning edge of moving from the Michigan City Indiana, about 45 minutes from Chicago, to Portland Oregan around the 1st of the year to help plant a Church.  I am going to be heading up our Micro-Church, Home Church environment, and some other related tasks.  </p>
<p>I have always done &#8220;small groups&#8221; in the traditional sense (affinity, age-based, etc&#8230;) and want to move more towards doing groups as you described that are based in Neighborhoods and are geographically based.  But this is something that is out of my comfort zone and I was wondering if I might talk to you and/or your other pastor partners about how you guys are doing that.  I need a brain to pick&#8230;<br />email me at <a href="mailto:transformission@hotmail.com">transformission@hotmail.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/comment-page-1/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/our-worst-housegathering-is-our-best-housegathering-tales-from-the-missional-front/#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Thanks to jamie, peter and upstream .. good thoughts y&#039;all... Michelle ... just a quick response ...I agree with you about coming together around a project ... indeed in the last two years our house gatherings have been moving more towards being missional orders ... coming together to support one another and participate in mission in the surrounding neighborhoods... I  mentioned this in the post but perhaps did not highlight it enough. I think this counteracts the tendency to navel gaze etc. that occurs in affinity groups. I disagree with you on the &quot;highly educated&quot; comment. Indeed our congregation has a disproportionate number of well educated folk (the NW suburbs is a highly educated place), especially as we have grown in the last two years. Nonetheless, I have found that highly educated professionals tend to be more self centered and closed off from community than less educated. More driven by personal interest. More difficult to get into community. Granted, the large number of Trinity Co/Sem students that come to &quot;the Vine&quot; are mission oriented, still .. since we have gotten larger, the Trinity contingent is a lesser percentage of our church. Just a thought ...&lt;br/&gt;Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to jamie, peter and upstream .. good thoughts y&#8217;all&#8230; Michelle &#8230; just a quick response &#8230;I agree with you about coming together around a project &#8230; indeed in the last two years our house gatherings have been moving more towards being missional orders &#8230; coming together to support one another and participate in mission in the surrounding neighborhoods&#8230; I  mentioned this in the post but perhaps did not highlight it enough. I think this counteracts the tendency to navel gaze etc. that occurs in affinity groups. I disagree with you on the &#8220;highly educated&#8221; comment. Indeed our congregation has a disproportionate number of well educated folk (the NW suburbs is a highly educated place), especially as we have grown in the last two years. Nonetheless, I have found that highly educated professionals tend to be more self centered and closed off from community than less educated. More driven by personal interest. More difficult to get into community. Granted, the large number of Trinity Co/Sem students that come to &#8220;the Vine&#8221; are mission oriented, still .. since we have gotten larger, the Trinity contingent is a lesser percentage of our church. Just a thought &#8230;<br />Peace</p>
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