Comments on: Ordination and the Lord’s Table: PROVIDING SOME “SHAPE” FOR “THE THINGS TO COME” http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:28:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Reclaiming the Mission » Sanctuary or Living Room? Senior Pastor or “Community Organizer”?: What You Do The First Year Shapes Your Congregation for Decades http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-41348 Reclaiming the Mission » Sanctuary or Living Room? Senior Pastor or “Community Organizer”?: What You Do The First Year Shapes Your Congregation for Decades Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:37:37 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-41348 [...] both cases, there will be a time to both ordain pastors and formalize worship (see this post here). However, what I learned at Life on the Vine is that moving too early on these two fronts (which [...] [...] both cases, there will be a time to both ordain pastors and formalize worship (see this post here). However, what I learned at Life on the Vine is that moving too early on these two fronts (which [...]

]]> By: Linkworthy 9/14/09 | MattCleaver.com http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-10615 Linkworthy 9/14/09 | MattCleaver.com Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:20:13 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-10615 [...] Ordination and the Lord’s Table from David Fitch. [...] [...] Ordination and the Lord’s Table from David Fitch. [...]

]]> By: paul http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-10358 paul Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:52:27 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-10358 David, I always appreciate your thoughts, though in this case, I must register some reservations. First of all, w.r.t. ordination, I think the word itself is fraught with false clerical notions that render it problematic. Secondly, since you have not really engaged the biblical texts to propose what you might mean by "ordination", I'm not sure what a better term to use would be. I'm also disappointed that you have not engaged with Marjorie Warkentin's study, "Ordination: A Biblical-Historical View". I would have really loved to hear your response to her arguments. In the same vein, I would have liked to have seen a more positive exposition of the Lord's Table. My sense is that many in the emerging/missional community seem to be falling for a sacramental view, perhaps in reaction to the "Lord's Table Lite" view of typical evangelicalism. To this end, I was hoping to know what you thought of Eric Svendsen's thought-provoking study, "The Table of the Lord: The Setting of the Lord's Supper in the New Testament and Its Significance as an Expression of Community" as I believe it has excellent missional applications. I also recall a very good article on the Lord's Table that interacted with the film, "Babette's Feast". David, I always appreciate your thoughts, though in this case, I must register some reservations. First of all, w.r.t. ordination, I think the word itself is fraught with false clerical notions that render it problematic. Secondly, since you have not really engaged the biblical texts to propose what you might mean by “ordination”, I’m not sure what a better term to use would be. I’m also disappointed that you have not engaged with Marjorie Warkentin’s study, “Ordination: A Biblical-Historical View”. I would have really loved to hear your response to her arguments.

In the same vein, I would have liked to have seen a more positive exposition of the Lord’s Table. My sense is that many in the emerging/missional community seem to be falling for a sacramental view, perhaps in reaction to the “Lord’s Table Lite” view of typical evangelicalism. To this end, I was hoping to know what you thought of Eric Svendsen’s thought-provoking study, “The Table of the Lord: The Setting of the Lord’s Supper in the New Testament and Its Significance as an Expression of Community” as I believe it has excellent missional applications.

I also recall a very good article on the Lord’s Table that interacted with the film, “Babette’s Feast”.

]]> By: Jim Martin http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9449 Jim Martin Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:31:40 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9449 David-- This is an excellent post and such a good reminder that we lose something in being entirely anti-institutional. Thanks for wise discernment here. David– This is an excellent post and such a good reminder that we lose something in being entirely anti-institutional. Thanks for wise discernment here.

]]> By: Jamie Arpin-Ricci http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9364 Jamie Arpin-Ricci Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:11:31 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9364 Hey David, Given the nature of my question, I actually didn't expect you to answer here (though a blog post on the topic would be excellent). Your answer is, in fact, helpful. We have been exploring just this path of late. Thanks! Peace, Jamie Hey David,

Given the nature of my question, I actually didn’t expect you to answer here (though a blog post on the topic would be excellent). Your answer is, in fact, helpful. We have been exploring just this path of late. Thanks!

Peace,
Jamie

]]> By: David Fitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9360 David Fitch Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:41:49 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9360 Erik, Kung's book was huge in my own journey back 20 some years ago. I still use it in my missional church classes to this day. Thanks for the good words on that. Celione, and Jamie, the question on the Lord's Supper is so huge it's hard to respond without another blog post etc.. What I've learned is this is a very discerning process, done together with a group of people , who have cntextual gifts for sure, but also historical and theological ones... reading both Anabaptist and Catholic sources at the same time ... don't know if that helps at all. peace Erik,
Kung’s book was huge in my own journey back 20 some years ago. I still use it in my missional church classes to this day. Thanks for the good words on that.
Celione, and Jamie,
the question on the Lord’s Supper is so huge it’s hard to respond without another blog post etc.. What I’ve learned is this is a very discerning process, done together with a group of people , who have cntextual gifts for sure, but also historical and theological ones… reading both Anabaptist and Catholic sources at the same time … don’t know if that helps at all.
peace

]]> By: Erik Leafblad http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9358 Erik Leafblad Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:22:04 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9358 I really appreciate this post. As I entered the missional church conversation four or five years back in seminary, I found a strange bed-fellow in Hans Kung. His book, "The Church," expounds on the marks of the church as being a kind of interplay between essence and form, which I think dovetails nicely with what you lay out here. He strongly rejects a kind of idealized, invisible church, but as a Roman Catholic, neither does he accept a perfected institutional church. The Church, he argues, exists in this conversation between its eschatological essence and its historically embodied form. If I'm not mistaken, it was this work that began to get him into some hot water with Rome. In any event, if you've not already, I'd consider his work as a nice conversation partner. I really appreciate this post. As I entered the missional church conversation four or five years back in seminary, I found a strange bed-fellow in Hans Kung. His book, “The Church,” expounds on the marks of the church as being a kind of interplay between essence and form, which I think dovetails nicely with what you lay out here. He strongly rejects a kind of idealized, invisible church, but as a Roman Catholic, neither does he accept a perfected institutional church. The Church, he argues, exists in this conversation between its eschatological essence and its historically embodied form. If I’m not mistaken, it was this work that began to get him into some hot water with Rome. In any event, if you’ve not already, I’d consider his work as a nice conversation partner.

]]> By: Celione Garth http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9343 Celione Garth Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:20:03 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9343 I'd love to hear your answer to Jaimes question. C. I’d love to hear your answer to Jaimes question.

C.

]]> By: Introducing the Missional Church — Ben Sternke http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9310 Introducing the Missional Church — Ben Sternke Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:49:13 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9310 [...] I am looking forward to reading this forthcoming book (ht Fitch): [...] [...] I am looking forward to reading this forthcoming book (ht Fitch): [...]

]]> By: davidfitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/ordination-and-the-lord%e2%80%99s-table-providing-some-shape-for-the-things-to-come%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-9307 davidfitch Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:36:40 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=602#comment-9307 Len, great post!! and Matt, we're all pursuing ways of training pastor/leaders in a way that makes sense for the current clime... thanks for the comments Len, great post!!
and Matt, we’re all pursuing ways of training pastor/leaders in a way that makes sense for the current clime… thanks for the comments

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