Comments on: Notes from Two Conferences in One Week: EkklesiaProject and Emergent Midwest http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:28:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: jim robertson http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1040 jim robertson Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:17:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1040 Re Tony Jones on the liberal/conservative polarities: "It is the double simultaneous outstretching that matters; this only can open the heart wide enough to let in God, and so make each man who achieves it a mediator of His Reality to other men. The non-religious socialist seems to stretch out one hand, and the non-social pietist the other. But one without the other is useless. Both at once: that is where the difficulty comes in. It seems a demand which we can hardly meet." Evelyn Underhill, 1922. Re Tony Jones on the liberal/conservative polarities: “It is the double simultaneous outstretching that matters; this only can open the heart wide enough to let in God, and so make each man who achieves it a mediator of His Reality to other men. The non-religious socialist seems to stretch out one hand, and the non-social pietist the other. But one without the other is useless. Both at once: that is where the difficulty comes in. It seems a demand which we can hardly meet.” Evelyn Underhill, 1922.

]]> By: thekid http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1038 thekid Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:33:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1038 D.F. Thanks for drawing the attention back to the great example of that little Methodist church. Things being done like that seem organic but for me it also feels like in the jump from city and state to the national level there is a major shift in what is going on. Perhaps the distance is what leads to the circus-like feeling of it all. D.F. Thanks for drawing the attention back to the great example of that little Methodist church. Things being done like that seem organic but for me it also feels like in the jump from city and state to the national level there is a major shift in what is going on. Perhaps the distance is what leads to the circus-like feeling of it all.

]]> By: thekid http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1039 thekid Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:33:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1039 D.F. Thanks for drawing the attention back to the great example of that little Methodist church. Things being done like that seem organic but for me it also feels like in the jump from city and state to the national level there is a major shift in what is going on. Perhaps the distance is what leads to the circus-like feeling of it all. D.F. Thanks for drawing the attention back to the great example of that little Methodist church. Things being done like that seem organic but for me it also feels like in the jump from city and state to the national level there is a major shift in what is going on. Perhaps the distance is what leads to the circus-like feeling of it all.

]]> By: Jason Hesiak http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1037 Jason Hesiak Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:32:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1037 Hey D.F.,<br/><br/>Just to be clear...I wasn't challening anyone around here with my previous comment. My assumption was that I was just pointing something out that most folks around here would agree with..<br/><br/>Blessings,<br/><br/>Jason Hey D.F.,

Just to be clear…I wasn’t challening anyone around here with my previous comment. My assumption was that I was just pointing something out that most folks around here would agree with..

Blessings,

Jason

]]> By: David Fitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1036 David Fitch Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:13:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1036 the kid, Gordon and yes Jason ... thanks for the comments that provoke us to think more about the church's role in relationship to national politics. I am not advocating we drop out of national politics by any means! yet I think the example of Mark Lau Branson's church in Oakland shows us the way in this regard. <br/><br/>Sheila, to be fair to Doug Pagitt, I did summarize a one hour talk by him. And I think it is safe to say that Doug and I have a few differences as to how we would articulate the importance and even centrality of the church as a social politic engaging the world. I think the issues of ecclessiology and missiology are big questions for emergent and still a continuing conversation. the kid, Gordon and yes Jason … thanks for the comments that provoke us to think more about the church’s role in relationship to national politics. I am not advocating we drop out of national politics by any means! yet I think the example of Mark Lau Branson’s church in Oakland shows us the way in this regard.

Sheila, to be fair to Doug Pagitt, I did summarize a one hour talk by him. And I think it is safe to say that Doug and I have a few differences as to how we would articulate the importance and even centrality of the church as a social politic engaging the world. I think the issues of ecclessiology and missiology are big questions for emergent and still a continuing conversation.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1035 Sheila Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:42:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1035 Thank you for this post, Dave. I got in on the goodies without burning the gasoline!<br/><br/>Wonderful job on the wedding, by the way.<br/><br/>I am a late-comer to the kinds of issues that are raised here, so most of the time I keep mum. Probably I should do so all of the time, but every now and again something you write about lures me into the discussion! (i.e., It's your fault!)<br/><br/>" . . . the kingdom of God should be separated from Jesus . . . the kingdom is bigger than the church . . . wherever God is active and working in the world, we want to join in with that" makes me uneasy. Anytime I sense an implication that the Church is a parenthesis - whether implied by Dispensationalists or by Postmoderns - I get very uncomfortable. <br/><br/>By all means enter into a work in which God seems to be moving, but never to the diminution of His Church. Surely we must hold the Church as the supremely unique Bride of Christ, not just His parlor maid which can be dismissed or replaced with a more efficient way of doing things. Thank you for this post, Dave. I got in on the goodies without burning the gasoline!

Wonderful job on the wedding, by the way.

I am a late-comer to the kinds of issues that are raised here, so most of the time I keep mum. Probably I should do so all of the time, but every now and again something you write about lures me into the discussion! (i.e., It’s your fault!)

” . . . the kingdom of God should be separated from Jesus . . . the kingdom is bigger than the church . . . wherever God is active and working in the world, we want to join in with that” makes me uneasy. Anytime I sense an implication that the Church is a parenthesis – whether implied by Dispensationalists or by Postmoderns – I get very uncomfortable.

By all means enter into a work in which God seems to be moving, but never to the diminution of His Church. Surely we must hold the Church as the supremely unique Bride of Christ, not just His parlor maid which can be dismissed or replaced with a more efficient way of doing things.

]]> By: Gordon Hackman http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1034 Gordon Hackman Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1034 Dave,<br/><br/>Two of Hauerwas's quotes really stuck out for me: <br/><br/>1.) "Truth that is desperate is a lie." <br/><br/>This reminds me of the words I heard someone attribute Brian McLaren, "If you're not kind, you're not right." I believe it is possible to hold to and present the truth to people in a way that negates the very truth we are presenting. I think one antidote to this is to revisit and reflect on the meaning of 1 Peter 3: 15-16. <br/><br/>2.)"National politics is like the Roman circus in first century Rome. It is entertainment to keep us distracted from the real issues."<br/><br/>Having a close family member who is very caught up in national politics and seeing the ugliness, anger, and hopelessness it continually generates, I really resonate with this statement. It sumarizes what I have come to more or less believe as a result of observing this. The irony is that this particular person has observed to me before how our mass media entertainment culture is really just a way of keeping people distracted from things that are important and that really control their lives and their world. He is right, of course, but Hauerwas's quote reminds us of a larger framework of perspective in which even those things that can legitimately be called "important" in worldy terms are themselves distractions from what is really important. I think here of Paul's words in Ephesians 6:12 or Jesus exchange with Pilate in John 18:33-38. Dave,

Two of Hauerwas’s quotes really stuck out for me:

1.) “Truth that is desperate is a lie.”

This reminds me of the words I heard someone attribute Brian McLaren, “If you’re not kind, you’re not right.” I believe it is possible to hold to and present the truth to people in a way that negates the very truth we are presenting. I think one antidote to this is to revisit and reflect on the meaning of 1 Peter 3: 15-16.

2.)”National politics is like the Roman circus in first century Rome. It is entertainment to keep us distracted from the real issues.”

Having a close family member who is very caught up in national politics and seeing the ugliness, anger, and hopelessness it continually generates, I really resonate with this statement. It sumarizes what I have come to more or less believe as a result of observing this. The irony is that this particular person has observed to me before how our mass media entertainment culture is really just a way of keeping people distracted from things that are important and that really control their lives and their world. He is right, of course, but Hauerwas’s quote reminds us of a larger framework of perspective in which even those things that can legitimately be called “important” in worldy terms are themselves distractions from what is really important. I think here of Paul’s words in Ephesians 6:12 or Jesus exchange with Pilate in John 18:33-38.

]]> By: Jason Hesiak http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1033 Jason Hesiak Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:22:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1033 The circus, with the elephants and tigers and bears, might hide the real issue of the elephant's stampede, the tiger's bite and the bear's claw, but eventually we will in reality be reminded of all three.<br/><br/>Slightly off topic...church might be a hoo-rah show to avoid the "bite" of sacraficial death at the cross...but it will come back around and remind us of it, whether we would prefer to forget it or not. The circus, with the elephants and tigers and bears, might hide the real issue of the elephant’s stampede, the tiger’s bite and the bear’s claw, but eventually we will in reality be reminded of all three.

Slightly off topic…church might be a hoo-rah show to avoid the “bite” of sacraficial death at the cross…but it will come back around and remind us of it, whether we would prefer to forget it or not.

]]> By: thekid http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-1032 thekid Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:22:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/notes-from-two-conferences-in-one-week-ekklesiaproject-and-emergent-midwest/#comment-1032 I'm glad there is someone out there who can seriously say such things about national politics. I find it difficult to want to pay attention to the whole big political media monster machine and I've no desire to participate in it but I've found it difficult to express that to friends who are so happy to be caught up in national politics.<br/><br/>As for the mantra, I was just thinking about this earlier today and how Bono reinforced this line a year or two ago. I'd agree about the basic tenets being true. But sometimes I think that take on things leaves too much distance between God's people and the work that is at hand for us. I'm looking forward to further posts on this. I’m glad there is someone out there who can seriously say such things about national politics. I find it difficult to want to pay attention to the whole big political media monster machine and I’ve no desire to participate in it but I’ve found it difficult to express that to friends who are so happy to be caught up in national politics.

As for the mantra, I was just thinking about this earlier today and how Bono reinforced this line a year or two ago. I’d agree about the basic tenets being true. But sometimes I think that take on things leaves too much distance between God’s people and the work that is at hand for us. I’m looking forward to further posts on this.

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