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	<title>Comments on: McLaren’s New Kind of Christianity &#8211; There’s a parting of the ways here – and that’s alright – Towards a New Missional Nicaea (Someday)</title>
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		<title>By: Reclaiming the Mission &#187; My 5 years of Blogging: 10 Highlights</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-68784</link>
		<dc:creator>Reclaiming the Mission &#187; My 5 years of Blogging: 10 Highlights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-68784</guid>
		<description>[...] is de-eschatologizing it (a fear I expounded on here).  The same ambivalences are evident in this post (see more stuff with Andrew Jones here) Though I find much to applaud in Brian McLaren&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is de-eschatologizing it (a fear I expounded on here).  The same ambivalences are evident in this post (see more stuff with Andrew Jones here) Though I find much to applaud in Brian McLaren&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Dowsett</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21807</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Dowsett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21807</guid>
		<description>Dave-

I agree with most of what you write here and with the basic &quot;grid&quot; you work with to delineate what you call post-evangelicalism. I see two problems with what you&#039;re suggesting here though:

1. The Neo-Reformed movement in no way sees themselves as &quot;post&quot; anything. They are just classical Reformed evangelicalism with better packaging. Certainly Tim Keller and Acts 29 have an incarnational missiology that could be considered new and might sometimes upset stodgy Christians who don&#039;t like rated-R movies. But these guys don&#039;t want to be counted as post-evangelical or post-whatever stream of the Reformed river they come from. They feel more akin to their paleo-evangelical brethren than they do to your other two streams of post-evangelicals. I.e., they wouldn&#039;t show up to your new Nicean council.

2. This might just be another way of stating #1. The Neo-Reformed view of Scripture precludes their even entering into dialogue with the other two streams. To them, anyone who is not an inerrantist is a liberal and you can&#039;t proceed forward in dialogue with someone who &quot;doesn&#039;t believe the bible is God&#039;s word.&quot; I.e., they wouldn&#039;t show up to your council.

Oh, and a third thing: we don&#039;t have a Constantine to convene the thing. (Kind of ironic that its the Anabaptist calling for a new council!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave-</p>
<p>I agree with most of what you write here and with the basic &#8220;grid&#8221; you work with to delineate what you call post-evangelicalism. I see two problems with what you&#8217;re suggesting here though:</p>
<p>1. The Neo-Reformed movement in no way sees themselves as &#8220;post&#8221; anything. They are just classical Reformed evangelicalism with better packaging. Certainly Tim Keller and Acts 29 have an incarnational missiology that could be considered new and might sometimes upset stodgy Christians who don&#8217;t like rated-R movies. But these guys don&#8217;t want to be counted as post-evangelical or post-whatever stream of the Reformed river they come from. They feel more akin to their paleo-evangelical brethren than they do to your other two streams of post-evangelicals. I.e., they wouldn&#8217;t show up to your new Nicean council.</p>
<p>2. This might just be another way of stating #1. The Neo-Reformed view of Scripture precludes their even entering into dialogue with the other two streams. To them, anyone who is not an inerrantist is a liberal and you can&#8217;t proceed forward in dialogue with someone who &#8220;doesn&#8217;t believe the bible is God&#8217;s word.&#8221; I.e., they wouldn&#8217;t show up to your council.</p>
<p>Oh, and a third thing: we don&#8217;t have a Constantine to convene the thing. (Kind of ironic that its the Anabaptist calling for a new council!)</p>
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		<title>By: len</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21096</link>
		<dc:creator>len</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21096</guid>
		<description>And I wonder (sorry for 3rd post) whether we haven&#039;t been able to work at this kind of networking in Canada because we have been trying to track and follow the next big thing North-South and have no bandwidth left for East-West? And this not to say nothing of value to the South but we have to first know who WE ARE -- otherwise we just cast seed to the wind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I wonder (sorry for 3rd post) whether we haven&#8217;t been able to work at this kind of networking in Canada because we have been trying to track and follow the next big thing North-South and have no bandwidth left for East-West? And this not to say nothing of value to the South but we have to first know who WE ARE &#8212; otherwise we just cast seed to the wind.</p>
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		<title>By: len</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21095</link>
		<dc:creator>len</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21095</guid>
		<description>I wonder what a Canadian &quot;origins project&quot; would look like? You know I haven&#039;t watched a lot of the Olympics but as a symbol and maybe an &quot;irruption&quot; it is fascinating. Something is shifting in Canada - one would almost think we are ready to stand and be counted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what a Canadian &#8220;origins project&#8221; would look like? You know I haven&#8217;t watched a lot of the Olympics but as a symbol and maybe an &#8220;irruption&#8221; it is fascinating. Something is shifting in Canada &#8211; one would almost think we are ready to stand and be counted?</p>
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		<title>By: len</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21094</link>
		<dc:creator>len</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21094</guid>
		<description>Grt discussion. Michael, I like the chart :) there are always nuances in taxonomies that will be missed, that&#039;s the double edge. Given the value of tribal definition (Jungian &quot;differentiation&quot;) as knowing therefore who we are, I too am identified with the neo-Anabaptist stream of missional. This may prove to be a &quot;third way&quot; time will tell. At least in theory we aren&#039;t so worried about living on the margins.

Agreed too that while we avoid pragmatism, we have to be theologically reflective AND rooted in practice. No either-or there. Webber&#039;s small chapter at the close of Younger Ev or Gary nelson&#039;s notes in Borderland Churches both hit at this need. In some ways I prefer nelson (a Canuck eh) his call that we must be &quot;apprentice-pastor-theologian-missionary&quot; and this from a Baptist guy! Getting hard to know who is who on this taxonomy.

Even in my role in FORGE I&#039;m experiencing some tension in all this. Feel the push to roots and practice. If we can&#039;t make it all work locally then it&#039;s &quot;only&quot; a nice conversation, but local will suck you in fast and then trying to even find space for the larger conversation is tough. Interesting to me that our own community is now on the verge of being birthed as its own society out of a larger Menno context. I saw this coming but now see the greater implications for innovation and movement and contextualization that could not happen so long as we were encumbered by the weight of the larger ship. The weight is really less institutional in the end than simply amorphous and incoherent, like any &quot;successful&quot; large church the large is so caught in modernity and its universalizing tendencies there is no possibility of &quot;self knowledge&quot; writ large they do not know who they are therefore defend against all comers. Not to mention inflexible. But small and face to face we quickly define and form a critical mass. Flexibility so important for innovation and engagement, but also.. just living it out as faithful apprentices..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grt discussion. Michael, I like the chart <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  there are always nuances in taxonomies that will be missed, that&#8217;s the double edge. Given the value of tribal definition (Jungian &#8220;differentiation&#8221;) as knowing therefore who we are, I too am identified with the neo-Anabaptist stream of missional. This may prove to be a &#8220;third way&#8221; time will tell. At least in theory we aren&#8217;t so worried about living on the margins.</p>
<p>Agreed too that while we avoid pragmatism, we have to be theologically reflective AND rooted in practice. No either-or there. Webber&#8217;s small chapter at the close of Younger Ev or Gary nelson&#8217;s notes in Borderland Churches both hit at this need. In some ways I prefer nelson (a Canuck eh) his call that we must be &#8220;apprentice-pastor-theologian-missionary&#8221; and this from a Baptist guy! Getting hard to know who is who on this taxonomy.</p>
<p>Even in my role in FORGE I&#8217;m experiencing some tension in all this. Feel the push to roots and practice. If we can&#8217;t make it all work locally then it&#8217;s &#8220;only&#8221; a nice conversation, but local will suck you in fast and then trying to even find space for the larger conversation is tough. Interesting to me that our own community is now on the verge of being birthed as its own society out of a larger Menno context. I saw this coming but now see the greater implications for innovation and movement and contextualization that could not happen so long as we were encumbered by the weight of the larger ship. The weight is really less institutional in the end than simply amorphous and incoherent, like any &#8220;successful&#8221; large church the large is so caught in modernity and its universalizing tendencies there is no possibility of &#8220;self knowledge&#8221; writ large they do not know who they are therefore defend against all comers. Not to mention inflexible. But small and face to face we quickly define and form a critical mass. Flexibility so important for innovation and engagement, but also.. just living it out as faithful apprentices..</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Bobrow</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21048</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Bobrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21048</guid>
		<description>Anyone know anything about the &quot;Forming Missional Communities&quot; Conference in DC?  It is being advertised as a missional conference, but Brian McLaren is one of the speakers, along with Anthony Smith and others.  Should this be understood as a specifically &quot;emergent&quot; conference?  See what I&#039;m talking about at www.transformnetwork.org (scroll down and it&#039;s on the right side of the page).  

I am new to the scene, so this back information is helpful.  At this point I certainly find myself aligning with the ideas of the missional stream, so I guess I want to make sure I know where any lines are drawn...  Any information would be helpful.

David, as for a representative from the Yoder camp, Lee Camp would be a great addition to that sort of a coalition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone know anything about the &#8220;Forming Missional Communities&#8221; Conference in DC?  It is being advertised as a missional conference, but Brian McLaren is one of the speakers, along with Anthony Smith and others.  Should this be understood as a specifically &#8220;emergent&#8221; conference?  See what I&#8217;m talking about at <a href="http://www.transformnetwork.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.transformnetwork.org</a> (scroll down and it&#8217;s on the right side of the page).  </p>
<p>I am new to the scene, so this back information is helpful.  At this point I certainly find myself aligning with the ideas of the missional stream, so I guess I want to make sure I know where any lines are drawn&#8230;  Any information would be helpful.</p>
<p>David, as for a representative from the Yoder camp, Lee Camp would be a great addition to that sort of a coalition.</p>
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		<title>By: The problem with narrative overlays (or, does Brian McLaren go far enough?) at (Ir)religiosity</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21031</link>
		<dc:creator>The problem with narrative overlays (or, does Brian McLaren go far enough?) at (Ir)religiosity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21031</guid>
		<description>[...] a bit dubious and his description of the Grec0-Roman narrative a bit overplayed (as other bloggers have aptly noted and I need not repeat here), I understand that is to be expected give his [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a bit dubious and his description of the Grec0-Roman narrative a bit overplayed (as other bloggers have aptly noted and I need not repeat here), I understand that is to be expected give his [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kinnon</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21019</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21019</guid>
		<description>Michael,
Check out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://cardus.ca/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cardus&lt;/a&gt; people in Hamilton, ON, as a good place to start. (There&#039;s a theme here. :-) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
Check out the <a href="http://cardus.ca/" rel="nofollow">Cardus</a> people in Hamilton, ON, as a good place to start. (There&#8217;s a theme here. <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: Michael DeFazio</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21011</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael DeFazio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21011</guid>
		<description>Such a great question! I put the chart together last May and only since have I really begun to see the importance of those influences. I haven&#039;t looked into it enough to know where and how they impacted the missional conversation / movement. I think another missing piece is where the influence of Jim Wallis and Sojourners and those kinds of folks. I&#039;m certainly open to suggestions! (And if you could point to some good starting points as far as looking into that tradition, that&#039;d be much appreciated.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a great question! I put the chart together last May and only since have I really begun to see the importance of those influences. I haven&#8217;t looked into it enough to know where and how they impacted the missional conversation / movement. I think another missing piece is where the influence of Jim Wallis and Sojourners and those kinds of folks. I&#8217;m certainly open to suggestions! (And if you could point to some good starting points as far as looking into that tradition, that&#8217;d be much appreciated.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kinnon</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/mclaren%e2%80%99s-new-kind-of-christianity-there%e2%80%99s-a-parting-of-the-ways-here-%e2%80%93-and-that%e2%80%99s-alright-%e2%80%93-towards-a-new-missional-nicaea-someday/comment-page-1/#comment-21010</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=913#comment-21010</guid>
		<description>Michael,
It&#039;s an interesting chart but do you see a place for Kuyperians in your timeline - Kuyper himself, the two Hermanns - Dooyeweerd and Bavinck and folk like Fuller&#039;s Rich Mouw, Citizens for Public Justice President Gideon Strauss, Jonathan &amp; Adrienne Chaplin and many others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
It&#8217;s an interesting chart but do you see a place for Kuyperians in your timeline &#8211; Kuyper himself, the two Hermanns &#8211; Dooyeweerd and Bavinck and folk like Fuller&#8217;s Rich Mouw, Citizens for Public Justice President Gideon Strauss, Jonathan &amp; Adrienne Chaplin and many others.</p>
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