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	<title>Comments on: Is the Clock Ticking for the Mega Churches?</title>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1014</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Based on my experience people in the postmodern generation either love the mega church or find it slick and disingenuous.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the church that will struggle in the future is the mid-sized church.  People will want the intimacy of a small gathering or the &quot;excellence&quot; of a large one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on my experience people in the postmodern generation either love the mega church or find it slick and disingenuous.</p>
<p>I think the church that will struggle in the future is the mid-sized church.  People will want the intimacy of a small gathering or the &#8220;excellence&#8221; of a large one.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Houghtaling</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1013</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Houghtaling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>David,&lt;br/&gt;Thought you and your readers would be interested in the church reviews that are published in the San Diego Reader: &lt;a HREF=&quot;&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.sdreader.com/published/archives/sheep_archive.html&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br/&gt;They have been doing church reviews every month since November 2004.  I have not seen this done in other cities – has anyone else?  When I discovered these reviews, I was a bit repulsed; however, they are well done and might be useful for a person who feels inclined to go “church shopping”.  While I think it is sad that our culture even uses the term “church shopping”, that&#039;s a subject for another time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />Thought you and your readers would be interested in the church reviews that are published in the San Diego Reader: <a HREF="" REL="nofollow">http://www.sdreader.com/published/archives/sheep_archive.html</a> <br />They have been doing church reviews every month since November 2004.  I have not seen this done in other cities – has anyone else?  When I discovered these reviews, I was a bit repulsed; however, they are well done and might be useful for a person who feels inclined to go “church shopping”.  While I think it is sad that our culture even uses the term “church shopping”, that&#8217;s a subject for another time.</p>
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		<title>By: sam andress</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1012</link>
		<dc:creator>sam andress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Marshill has an extensive network of house churches.  Rob repeatedly and sometimes emphatically states that their Sunday mornings is just teaching and worship in song and Eucharist, not church.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;David, I think YES, we&#039;re seeing the end of the recycling of the saints.  But what do we do about guys like Osteen and Schuller, those who continually create spectacle that lures away many a gaze.  I suspect those two types probably appealto the boomers and older.  I know all of my friends, even the non-Fuller ones, between the ages of 20-35 find them repulsive and even antithetical to the message and way of Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marshill has an extensive network of house churches.  Rob repeatedly and sometimes emphatically states that their Sunday mornings is just teaching and worship in song and Eucharist, not church.  </p>
<p>David, I think YES, we&#8217;re seeing the end of the recycling of the saints.  But what do we do about guys like Osteen and Schuller, those who continually create spectacle that lures away many a gaze.  I suspect those two types probably appealto the boomers and older.  I know all of my friends, even the non-Fuller ones, between the ages of 20-35 find them repulsive and even antithetical to the message and way of Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1011</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/#comment-1011</guid>
		<description>ted ...&lt;br/&gt;I would never want to disparage one church or one mega pastor by name... especially if I have not visited nor know the person. For me, the notion that any church is built around a personality ... or a given pastor&#039;s preaching, because he/she is either brilliant, enagaging, entertaining ... counters the very definition of what it means to be the church gathered in worship of Jesus Christ as Lord. There is much more to be said about the dynamic of a church &quot;built&quot; around a personality and how it goes against the nature of worship itself, how it is a product of modernity, how it runs counter to forming communal bodies of Christ, how it in the end is rejected by those who have not already had sufficient indoctrination in Christianity so as to make a packaged presentation palatable ... for all these reasons (I say each of these not flippantly)  ... I believe the clock MIGHT be ticking for mega church in the lands of post Christendom (P.S. Grand Rapids probably isn&#039;t a good candidate for a post Christian city). &lt;br/&gt;Peace .. and thanks for the engagement</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ted &#8230;<br />I would never want to disparage one church or one mega pastor by name&#8230; especially if I have not visited nor know the person. For me, the notion that any church is built around a personality &#8230; or a given pastor&#8217;s preaching, because he/she is either brilliant, enagaging, entertaining &#8230; counters the very definition of what it means to be the church gathered in worship of Jesus Christ as Lord. There is much more to be said about the dynamic of a church &#8220;built&#8221; around a personality and how it goes against the nature of worship itself, how it is a product of modernity, how it runs counter to forming communal bodies of Christ, how it in the end is rejected by those who have not already had sufficient indoctrination in Christianity so as to make a packaged presentation palatable &#8230; for all these reasons (I say each of these not flippantly)  &#8230; I believe the clock MIGHT be ticking for mega church in the lands of post Christendom (P.S. Grand Rapids probably isn&#8217;t a good candidate for a post Christian city). <br />Peace .. and thanks for the engagement</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Gossard</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Gossard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>David, Yes. This is interesting and I thank you for it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do wonder at the popularity of places like Mars Hill Bible Church with Rob Bell. I would say the majority there from what I know are not baby boomers. Yet that place is packed. I&#039;m sure there has to be some outlet for community there, but I think alot of people just plug in for one service a week. Maybe that&#039;s an exception to the rule, they do give one a sense of community I would think from my download of messages from there, but in itself that is not adequate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, Yes. This is interesting and I thank you for it.</p>
<p>I do wonder at the popularity of places like Mars Hill Bible Church with Rob Bell. I would say the majority there from what I know are not baby boomers. Yet that place is packed. I&#8217;m sure there has to be some outlet for community there, but I think alot of people just plug in for one service a week. Maybe that&#8217;s an exception to the rule, they do give one a sense of community I would think from my download of messages from there, but in itself that is not adequate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hesiak</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1009</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hesiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey DF,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for the response.  I figured that, being Canadian, you would know the French.  It sounds, however, as if whoever the dude was who used the phrase, was being quite cleverously funny:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_et_lumi%C3%A8re_(show)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Son et lumière (French, lit. &quot;sound and light&quot;), or a sound and light show is a form of nighttime entertainment that is usually presented in an outdoor venue of historic significance. Special lighting effects are projected onto the façade of a building or ruin and synchronized with recorded or live narration and music to dramatize the history of the place. The invention of the concept is credited to Paul Robert-Houdin, who was the curator of the Château de Chambord in France, which hosted the world&#039;s first son et lumière in 1952. Another was established in the early 1960s at the site of the Great Pyramid at Giza, Egypt.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I like, &quot;Essentially the format involves no active participation by actors but a recorded narrative of the history of the building concerned by one or a cast of voices. To this is added music or sound effects as appropriate, all of which is synchronised to lighting effects which provide the visual dimension.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sounds JUST like your typical church service!  Everything is a copy/recording of something some distant God said long ago but who often seems to no longer have any substantial presence with us now.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Pyrotechnic effects are occasionally included to give added spectacle.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;LOL.  &quot;God is a consuming fire&quot; - a bunch of Medieval mystics.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;A relatively recent variation is that, rather than the music and narration coming through a concert-like sound system, they may use headsets, such as in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania&#039;s &quot;Lights of Liberty&quot;. This allows an audience to move through a historic district as the show proceeds.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ah yes.  Movie time with God.  Eternity for &quot;show&quot; at church!  &quot;Real time&quot;?  Who needs it anymore.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;In Britain, where the majority of such productions have been staged at churches, cathedrals and abbeys, indoor presentations are frequently preferred, particularly as architectural gems might otherwise not be shown to best advantage.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Best advantage.&quot;  Argh.  Because...oh yeah...100 watts crafted and controled by us is much better than the sun...argh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey DF,</p>
<p>Thanks for the response.  I figured that, being Canadian, you would know the French.  It sounds, however, as if whoever the dude was who used the phrase, was being quite cleverously funny:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_et_lumi%C3%A8re_(show)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_et_lumi%C3%A8re_(show)</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Son et lumière (French, lit. &#8220;sound and light&#8221;), or a sound and light show is a form of nighttime entertainment that is usually presented in an outdoor venue of historic significance. Special lighting effects are projected onto the façade of a building or ruin and synchronized with recorded or live narration and music to dramatize the history of the place. The invention of the concept is credited to Paul Robert-Houdin, who was the curator of the Château de Chambord in France, which hosted the world&#8217;s first son et lumière in 1952. Another was established in the early 1960s at the site of the Great Pyramid at Giza, Egypt.&#8221;</p>
<p>I like, &#8220;Essentially the format involves no active participation by actors but a recorded narrative of the history of the building concerned by one or a cast of voices. To this is added music or sound effects as appropriate, all of which is synchronised to lighting effects which provide the visual dimension.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds JUST like your typical church service!  Everything is a copy/recording of something some distant God said long ago but who often seems to no longer have any substantial presence with us now.</p>
<p>&#8220;Pyrotechnic effects are occasionally included to give added spectacle.&#8221;</p>
<p>LOL.  &#8220;God is a consuming fire&#8221; &#8211; a bunch of Medieval mystics.</p>
<p>&#8220;A relatively recent variation is that, rather than the music and narration coming through a concert-like sound system, they may use headsets, such as in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania&#8217;s &#8220;Lights of Liberty&#8221;. This allows an audience to move through a historic district as the show proceeds.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah yes.  Movie time with God.  Eternity for &#8220;show&#8221; at church!  &#8220;Real time&#8221;?  Who needs it anymore.</p>
<p>&#8220;In Britain, where the majority of such productions have been staged at churches, cathedrals and abbeys, indoor presentations are frequently preferred, particularly as architectural gems might otherwise not be shown to best advantage.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Best advantage.&#8221;  Argh.  Because&#8230;oh yeah&#8230;100 watts crafted and controled by us is much better than the sun&#8230;argh.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1008</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/#comment-1008</guid>
		<description>as always, thanks for these comments ... Jason, can&#039;t answer that french question ... &lt;br/&gt;to kris ... is there something inappropriate about asking &quot;is the clock ticking for the mega church?&quot; Is there something inapprorpiate about asking these questions about the form of mega church? Seriously ... haven&#039;t we always asked these important questions about the church, its faithfulness to christ, and its willingness to meet the challenge of our times? Not to tweek this too much, but your emphasis on the category of choice as determinative? Is this not underwriting the consumerism we all fear? I&#039;m serious about these questions, not trying to be contentious ... in any case, I appreciate yoiur willingness to warn us against &quot;being critical&quot; foir the sake of being critical. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Blessings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as always, thanks for these comments &#8230; Jason, can&#8217;t answer that french question &#8230; <br />to kris &#8230; is there something inappropriate about asking &#8220;is the clock ticking for the mega church?&#8221; Is there something inapprorpiate about asking these questions about the form of mega church? Seriously &#8230; haven&#8217;t we always asked these important questions about the church, its faithfulness to christ, and its willingness to meet the challenge of our times? Not to tweek this too much, but your emphasis on the category of choice as determinative? Is this not underwriting the consumerism we all fear? I&#8217;m serious about these questions, not trying to be contentious &#8230; in any case, I appreciate yoiur willingness to warn us against &#8220;being critical&#8221; foir the sake of being critical. </p>
<p>Blessings</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1007</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/#comment-1007</guid>
		<description>I have (and do) attend a mega church, and I also attend from time to time a local Anglican church within walking distance of my home.  I&#039;ve come to appreciate different types of churches - big and small and in between.  My prayer is that we Christians will stop being critical of other churches and encourage people to attend the church of their choice (and respect those choices without being critical of whatever church is chosen).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have (and do) attend a mega church, and I also attend from time to time a local Anglican church within walking distance of my home.  I&#8217;ve come to appreciate different types of churches &#8211; big and small and in between.  My prayer is that we Christians will stop being critical of other churches and encourage people to attend the church of their choice (and respect those choices without being critical of whatever church is chosen).</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Martinson</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1006</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Martinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/#comment-1006</guid>
		<description>David,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks, as always, for a great post.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I am currently employed as a youth pastor at a mega-church.  It is the second that I have worked within.  My education and life experience gave me the heart to work within megas and try to inspire change (maybe that&#039;s a bit bold and egotistical, but it&#039;s honest).  What I&#039;ve discovered in both churches, and maybe this isn&#039;t very profound, is that it is highly unlikely that any of these signs will be taken seriously by a mega-church.  They do not want to change, cannot imagine doing things differently, and don&#039;t see why they would need to anyways.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I guess what I&#039;m getting at is this; do we just give up on mega-churches and watch as the gigantic buidlings become large echo chambers?  Does the criticism aimed at them really do any good, or is it falling on deaf ears?  What role should those who are not involved in the mega-church world have within it?  I ask these questions with sincerity and with honestly no idea what the answer should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Thanks, as always, for a great post.</p>
<p>I am currently employed as a youth pastor at a mega-church.  It is the second that I have worked within.  My education and life experience gave me the heart to work within megas and try to inspire change (maybe that&#8217;s a bit bold and egotistical, but it&#8217;s honest).  What I&#8217;ve discovered in both churches, and maybe this isn&#8217;t very profound, is that it is highly unlikely that any of these signs will be taken seriously by a mega-church.  They do not want to change, cannot imagine doing things differently, and don&#8217;t see why they would need to anyways.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m getting at is this; do we just give up on mega-churches and watch as the gigantic buidlings become large echo chambers?  Does the criticism aimed at them really do any good, or is it falling on deaf ears?  What role should those who are not involved in the mega-church world have within it?  I ask these questions with sincerity and with honestly no idea what the answer should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hesiak</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hesiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/is-the-clock-ticking-for-the-mega-churches/#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>Hey D.F.,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I really like this post...of course.  A couple things...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Its been a good ten or eleven years since I stopped taking French.  What is &quot;son et lumiere&quot;, of &quot;but really: why the son et lumiere? I found the medium more than a bit out of whack with the message.&quot;  I have a sense of what he&#039;s talking about, but no definite image.  Is he talking about some flashy power point or something of the sort?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And sometimes when I&#039;m actually not numb to God and reality, I can be a bit of an emotional girl, if you will.  I was quite moved by: &quot;My fear had left me, there was a calm sense of wonder now...he spoke very calmly in a quiet voice that exuded a wisdom only achieved through many years of heart wrenching reality...I could tell then and there we had found what this experiment was set out to accomplish, a church that saw past the money, power and the heighten sense of moral superiority that we have grown accustomed to...Amidst all the pomp and circumstance of the Christian world out there, here lies a simple, honest place that really means it.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Recently I watched &quot;Andrei Rublev,&quot; by Andrei Tarkovsky.  It, along with church the night before, began to reconcile me, I think, to &quot;years of heart wrenching reality.&quot;  In my case only five or six here in the market driven world of &quot;architecture.&quot;  But what I find interesting is the film&#039;s...as well as the wise and seasoned pastor&#039;s...apparent understanding of and centering of his Jesus message...not on &quot;pomp and circumstance&quot; (like most films and churches)...but on an understanding of suffering with Christ.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Blessings,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Jason</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey D.F.,</p>
<p>I really like this post&#8230;of course.  A couple things&#8230;</p>
<p>Its been a good ten or eleven years since I stopped taking French.  What is &#8220;son et lumiere&#8221;, of &#8220;but really: why the son et lumiere? I found the medium more than a bit out of whack with the message.&#8221;  I have a sense of what he&#8217;s talking about, but no definite image.  Is he talking about some flashy power point or something of the sort?</p>
<p>And sometimes when I&#8217;m actually not numb to God and reality, I can be a bit of an emotional girl, if you will.  I was quite moved by: &#8220;My fear had left me, there was a calm sense of wonder now&#8230;he spoke very calmly in a quiet voice that exuded a wisdom only achieved through many years of heart wrenching reality&#8230;I could tell then and there we had found what this experiment was set out to accomplish, a church that saw past the money, power and the heighten sense of moral superiority that we have grown accustomed to&#8230;Amidst all the pomp and circumstance of the Christian world out there, here lies a simple, honest place that really means it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Recently I watched &#8220;Andrei Rublev,&#8221; by Andrei Tarkovsky.  It, along with church the night before, began to reconcile me, I think, to &#8220;years of heart wrenching reality.&#8221;  In my case only five or six here in the market driven world of &#8220;architecture.&#8221;  But what I find interesting is the film&#8217;s&#8230;as well as the wise and seasoned pastor&#8217;s&#8230;apparent understanding of and centering of his Jesus message&#8230;not on &#8220;pomp and circumstance&#8221; (like most films and churches)&#8230;but on an understanding of suffering with Christ.</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Jason</p>
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