Discipleship in the Missional Church
Ethics in the Missional Church (the Holiness Code)
Public Preaching and Missional Teaching
Coaching for Excellence
Exegetical Biblical Studies
Equipping All God’s Missionary People to reach the Postmodern generation

2) Truth is we cannot really make a missional difference with a new list of relevant classes in seminary education. Why can’t we invest another wineskin for training – internships – releasing – and ongoing training. From experience real learning cannot just be a mind thing – real learning is on the job with mentoring/coaching etc.

Dave – Great discussion points!

Consider this: Let’s not send kids to Christian Colleges for ministry prep. When they do go m any emerge with so much debt they often cannot serve in ministry jobs and deal with living expenses as well as paying off the debt. Seminary does even more to offer education of the mind and does not result in real learning that comes with actually doing it.

Why not use our Community Colleges for generals and let’s create on the job regional training centers with necessary courses in Theology and Mistry as suggested earlier. We will raise up Missional Great Commission disciple driven leaders who:
1) Make disciples who make disciples who make disciples.
2) As disciples are made God will do what He said He will do, “I will build My Church.”

The Missionary Church Midwest District under the direction of Supt. Steve Ortmann is launching this pilot program in the District with the goal of regional training centers and mentoring and coaching without the debt and with all licensing and ordination requirements taught in the Training Centers. The nice thing is two-fold: Students are prepared for the real deal and 2) They don’t have the debt to pull them down.

Oh I can share so much more… But since we are stuck in the Institutional carry on as usual deal – I fear, few will likely see become open enough to see it.

That actually helps a lot. I know I always go back to my architecture stuff, but that’s what I know. What you say reminds me of how a plan of a building isn’t “dropped out of the sky”…even if the architect THINKS it is! AND…it reminds me of how much history and/or training is BEHIND that plan…whether it be training of an academic variety or an “unconscious” cultural/contextual kind of training that actually seems to be more typical, or that seems to reign moreso. Also too…reminds me that my tests in my history of Architecture class…there were SOME “true/false” and/or “multiple choice” questions…but they were a small portion of the testing. That reminds me of what you say, “…need not be “systematic” in the typical scientific textbook approach of the fundamentalists”.

As I hear folk like you say helpful things like this, my concern about systems is able to be more articulated and shot more clearly at its target too. I think…much like how you speak of expository preaching in your book…it has a lot to do with CONTROL…”Pan” is, figuratively, the “god” who “holds things together” (or so we come to imagine). I think in the picture you just painted God is left in his rightfully ordered place as the one who holds things together from the center. With your idea of study of systematic (whatever), man isn’t trying to usurp God in that way.

I am learning and growing. Church sure is an interesting animal.

Thanks and God bless,

Jason

You mentioned somewhere up there in this post that there is a need for study of systematic theology, I think you said, “pretty much because we just gotta have it”, or something along those lines.

That didn’t sit well with me. From what I’ve noticed, so far, this seems to be where we differ. I am coming to a point, however, of looking for a properly ordered relatinship between systematic theology and the actual life of a community (or spiritual formation), rather than throwing any and all systems to the doghouse. My coming to this new realization has been through a process of pain and struggle…not just through some stoic contemplation (just to give a glimpse of where I’m coming from).

I say all that to ask if you have any more thoughts on this. There seemed to be much more behind your “becuase we just gotta have it” than what you’ve shared so far. I’m wondering if you have any futher thoughts on the matte, and how they might pertian to what I’ve shared above about my struggles (probably shared by others in various or very different ways).

Jason

We are all praying for Bob … and waiting to hear the results of various therapy in about four weeks… we have hopes that Bob has years more with us … not just months

Blessings DF

WRT sexuality, a great resource for me has been Ronald Rolheiser’s “The Holy Longing”. His chapter on the subject is very good, the best I’ve ever read. The overarching theme of the book is actually “desire”, which is another subject that gets written off, except to discuss it negatively. I so appreciate his viewpoint.

Are the AEF lectures going to be made available afterwards, for those of us who can’t go?

Dana Ames

Sage