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	<title>Comments on: IF I JUST PREACH A GOOD SERMON- THEY WILL COME: Three Dying Myths (of Christendom) About Preaching</title>
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		<title>By: herbalecstacy</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-22507</link>
		<dc:creator>herbalecstacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hey guys, i just came here after a good yahoo search. Fine site you have here! Keep it up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey guys, i just came here after a good yahoo search. Fine site you have here! Keep it up!</p>
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		<title>By: Reclaiming the Mission &#187; Top Ten Posts 2009: Merry Christmas and a Look Back at This Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-16301</link>
		<dc:creator>Reclaiming the Mission &#187; Top Ten Posts 2009: Merry Christmas and a Look Back at This Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] If I just Preach a good sermon &#8211; People will Come: Another post in my ongoing attempts to rethink preaching for communal formation into [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If I just Preach a good sermon &#8211; People will Come: Another post in my ongoing attempts to rethink preaching for communal formation into [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10991</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 04:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey David - It seems to me that there is a bit of an irony here  -  that the leaders are not ‘ministering to the dying vestiges of Christendom’ – in fact they are contributing to what is killing it – for at the end of the day &quot;presenting the Bible in as compelling and entertaining a way as they can muster&quot; risks fostering a narcissistic group of people, who are not all that attractive to anyone other than fellow narcissists! who are bereft of understanding that he who loses his life shall find it. 

Not only ironic, but also, short-sighted. The culture of competitive, consumerist Xianity is kinda like Easau selling his birthright to fill an immediate need that he let dominate his vision for the future, while forgoing the rights and responsibilities that were his calling:

Esau said, &quot;I&#039;m starving! What good is a birthright if I&#039;m dead?&quot;

 Jacob said, &quot;First, swear to me.&quot; And he did it. On oath Esau traded away his rights as the firstborn. Jacob gave him bread and the stew of lentils. He ate and drank, got up and left. That&#039;s how Esau shrugged off his rights as the firstborn.

The Message, Gen. 25:32-34

Scary when you think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey David &#8211; It seems to me that there is a bit of an irony here  &#8211;  that the leaders are not ‘ministering to the dying vestiges of Christendom’ – in fact they are contributing to what is killing it – for at the end of the day &#8220;presenting the Bible in as compelling and entertaining a way as they can muster&#8221; risks fostering a narcissistic group of people, who are not all that attractive to anyone other than fellow narcissists! who are bereft of understanding that he who loses his life shall find it. </p>
<p>Not only ironic, but also, short-sighted. The culture of competitive, consumerist Xianity is kinda like Easau selling his birthright to fill an immediate need that he let dominate his vision for the future, while forgoing the rights and responsibilities that were his calling:</p>
<p>Esau said, &#8220;I&#8217;m starving! What good is a birthright if I&#8217;m dead?&#8221;</p>
<p> Jacob said, &#8220;First, swear to me.&#8221; And he did it. On oath Esau traded away his rights as the firstborn. Jacob gave him bread and the stew of lentils. He ate and drank, got up and left. That&#8217;s how Esau shrugged off his rights as the firstborn.</p>
<p>The Message, Gen. 25:32-34</p>
<p>Scary when you think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: francois taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10887</link>
		<dc:creator>francois taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=644#comment-10887</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your post. I think biblical &quot;preaching&quot; can only happen when, as a community, we gather to reflect on what our common effort to be the salt and the light of the world have resulted in. 

Biblical &quot;preaching&quot; is putting words on struggles, questions, events, actions, social dynamics that are there, right in front of our eyes; it is framing our actual experiences so we are brought back to the salvific work of Christ, through which we partake in the Kingdom.   

The thing is, we are educated and we are reading a book that provides us with tons of things to reflect upon. So, very naturally, we ask the preacher to be our guide. We don&#039;t want to get lost in the maze.  But this exercice, too often, is disconnected to our life and our ministry as a community. 

I live in Montreal and I am surronded by a culture that as a deep mistrust of any public discourse, specially one coming out of institutional christianity. Good preaching simply will not do.  The work is cut out for us: we need to rebuild from the ground up Christianisty&#039;s reputation by being communities that
1)  very humbly go where it hurts so as to share the pain and encourage/help those who are crushed by life. 
2) celebrate life and bring life in the larger community through all the means at our disposal: the arts, hospitality (featuring our own version of slow food), 
promotion of public policies that foster a sense of community, etc.
3) learn the art of carefull listening and gentle proding, so as to invite people to pay attention to the wispers of God&#039;s Spirit that is stirring their souls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your post. I think biblical &#8220;preaching&#8221; can only happen when, as a community, we gather to reflect on what our common effort to be the salt and the light of the world have resulted in. </p>
<p>Biblical &#8220;preaching&#8221; is putting words on struggles, questions, events, actions, social dynamics that are there, right in front of our eyes; it is framing our actual experiences so we are brought back to the salvific work of Christ, through which we partake in the Kingdom.   </p>
<p>The thing is, we are educated and we are reading a book that provides us with tons of things to reflect upon. So, very naturally, we ask the preacher to be our guide. We don&#8217;t want to get lost in the maze.  But this exercice, too often, is disconnected to our life and our ministry as a community. </p>
<p>I live in Montreal and I am surronded by a culture that as a deep mistrust of any public discourse, specially one coming out of institutional christianity. Good preaching simply will not do.  The work is cut out for us: we need to rebuild from the ground up Christianisty&#8217;s reputation by being communities that<br />
1)  very humbly go where it hurts so as to share the pain and encourage/help those who are crushed by life.<br />
2) celebrate life and bring life in the larger community through all the means at our disposal: the arts, hospitality (featuring our own version of slow food),<br />
promotion of public policies that foster a sense of community, etc.<br />
3) learn the art of carefull listening and gentle proding, so as to invite people to pay attention to the wispers of God&#8217;s Spirit that is stirring their souls.</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10831</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=644#comment-10831</guid>
		<description>Len and David, the requirement of &quot;something socially compelling&quot; is a central theme of Scot McKnight&#039;s book &quot;A Community Called Atonement&quot;  However, I&#039;m not sure that our culture always has the eyes to see or ears to hear what is truly &quot;surprising and visible&quot;, therefore the task of preaching is to proclaim &quot;Look, there!  God is at work!&quot;  For example, a  colleague of mine tried to get the Pittsburgh Post Gazette to cover his church&#039;s mission trip to Honduras.  The religion writer said it wasn&#039;t really news because &quot;these trips happen all the time.  Now, if there happened to be a revolution or a war where you&#039;re going, that would be news.&quot;  Then, while the group was in Honduras this summer, a military coup took place and they chose to continue with the mission.  Upon his return he had voicemails, emails, and texts from the religion writer hoping to cover the story.  But wasn&#039;t there something &quot;socially compelling&quot; happening in that trip already?  This begs the question, who are our listeners when we are interpreting the socially compelling events, and who gets to define what&#039;s socially compelling?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Len and David, the requirement of &#8220;something socially compelling&#8221; is a central theme of Scot McKnight&#8217;s book &#8220;A Community Called Atonement&#8221;  However, I&#8217;m not sure that our culture always has the eyes to see or ears to hear what is truly &#8220;surprising and visible&#8221;, therefore the task of preaching is to proclaim &#8220;Look, there!  God is at work!&#8221;  For example, a  colleague of mine tried to get the Pittsburgh Post Gazette to cover his church&#8217;s mission trip to Honduras.  The religion writer said it wasn&#8217;t really news because &#8220;these trips happen all the time.  Now, if there happened to be a revolution or a war where you&#8217;re going, that would be news.&#8221;  Then, while the group was in Honduras this summer, a military coup took place and they chose to continue with the mission.  Upon his return he had voicemails, emails, and texts from the religion writer hoping to cover the story.  But wasn&#8217;t there something &#8220;socially compelling&#8221; happening in that trip already?  This begs the question, who are our listeners when we are interpreting the socially compelling events, and who gets to define what&#8217;s socially compelling?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10810</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=644#comment-10810</guid>
		<description>Testimonies to the inbreaking of the kingdom are way needed indeed.  Praise God that He&#039;s not just a God of the past!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Testimonies to the inbreaking of the kingdom are way needed indeed.  Praise God that He&#8217;s not just a God of the past!</p>
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		<title>By: davidfitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10796</link>
		<dc:creator>davidfitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=644#comment-10796</guid>
		<description>Len,
your last comment nailed it ... public proclamation (in post Christendom) requires something socially compelling out of which and for which it can make sense...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Len,<br />
your last comment nailed it &#8230; public proclamation (in post Christendom) requires something socially compelling out of which and for which it can make sense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NextReformation &#187; preaching, proclamation, performance..</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10791</link>
		<dc:creator>NextReformation &#187; preaching, proclamation, performance..</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Fitch most recent post has been a discussion on preaching in post-Christendom. Essentially David has made the point that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fitch most recent post has been a discussion on preaching in post-Christendom. Essentially David has made the point that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: len</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10790</link>
		<dc:creator>len</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=644#comment-10790</guid>
		<description>Matt, isn&#039;t that public proclamation actually intended to be an explanation for something surprising and visible? So, for example, someone is healed.. and we say &quot;this is the presence of the kingdom&quot; or someone gives generously to the poor and we say, &quot;the kingdom of God is among you.&quot; And so maybe the problem we too often run into is that there is no reason to offer an explanation.. no reason to proclaim unless something is first performed..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, isn&#8217;t that public proclamation actually intended to be an explanation for something surprising and visible? So, for example, someone is healed.. and we say &#8220;this is the presence of the kingdom&#8221; or someone gives generously to the poor and we say, &#8220;the kingdom of God is among you.&#8221; And so maybe the problem we too often run into is that there is no reason to offer an explanation.. no reason to proclaim unless something is first performed..</p>
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		<title>By: A Place For The God-Hungry &#187; Places I&#8217;ve Been</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/if-i-just-preach-a-good-sermon-they-will-come-three-dying-myths-of-christendom-about-preaching/comment-page-1/#comment-10780</link>
		<dc:creator>A Place For The God-Hungry &#187; Places I&#8217;ve Been</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] interesting post by David Fitch, &quot;If I Just Preach a Good Sermon, They Will Come: Three Dying Myths (of Christendom) About [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting post by David Fitch, &#8220;If I Just Preach a Good Sermon, They Will Come: Three Dying Myths (of Christendom) About [...]</p>
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