Comments on: "Guy Churches": The Problem with Evangelical’s Obsession with Contextualization and the Alternative – Incarnation http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:28:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Tracey Gucciardo http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-60621 Tracey Gucciardo Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:51:50 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-60621 You made some great points. I would like to add your news feed to my website, do you have one available? I will check back later for your reply. Thanks You made some great points. I would like to add your news feed to my website, do you have one available? I will check back later for your reply. Thanks

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1840 Anonymous Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:13:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1840 Hi David<br/><br/>Some frigging big words that I need to go use a dictionary to see what they mean - did you not get the "I am a Biker" bit :-)<br/><br/>Okay, but in order to influence a culture, one must get integrity in that culture to be heard?<br/><br/>My take is that without that integrity/trust, you are getting nowhere.<br/><br/>However, one can not become so like that culture that no one can tell the difference between'you' and 'them'. <br/><br/>Also, once in that culture and having an influence, there must be a drive to get them to reach out to other cultures and keep the momentum going and thus utimately, bring all 'cultures' together as one.<br/><br/>And here I thnk we have managed to achieve that in that we not only have Bikers coming, but also business owners, ex prostitutes, drunks, druggies, murderers, house wifes etc and they all mix well with each other as they have a common denominator, Jesus. And they are all working together to reach others.<br/><br/>?<br/><br/>Pops Hi David

Some frigging big words that I need to go use a dictionary to see what they mean – did you not get the “I am a Biker” bit :-)

Okay, but in order to influence a culture, one must get integrity in that culture to be heard?

My take is that without that integrity/trust, you are getting nowhere.

However, one can not become so like that culture that no one can tell the difference between’you’ and ‘them’.

Also, once in that culture and having an influence, there must be a drive to get them to reach out to other cultures and keep the momentum going and thus utimately, bring all ‘cultures’ together as one.

And here I thnk we have managed to achieve that in that we not only have Bikers coming, but also business owners, ex prostitutes, drunks, druggies, murderers, house wifes etc and they all mix well with each other as they have a common denominator, Jesus. And they are all working together to reach others.

?

Pops

]]> By: David Fitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1839 David Fitch Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1839 pops... <br/>I know ... this sounds overdone...and the answer should be simple... but what did Paul mean by his phrase? I think it makes sense for Christians to inhabit and transform cultures ..even motorcycle cultures ... the beef here on this post ....is the attempt to niche market the church making church comfortable.. even conform-able to the habits, lifestyle, proclvities of every niche lifestyle encalve. This divides the body ... and we lose there wherewithal to be trasnformative in culture. And I consider this no longer incarnational ... I consider it synchretistic and dilutive of the gospel. pops…
I know … this sounds overdone…and the answer should be simple… but what did Paul mean by his phrase? I think it makes sense for Christians to inhabit and transform cultures ..even motorcycle cultures … the beef here on this post ….is the attempt to niche market the church making church comfortable.. even conform-able to the habits, lifestyle, proclvities of every niche lifestyle encalve. This divides the body … and we lose there wherewithal to be trasnformative in culture. And I consider this no longer incarnational … I consider it synchretistic and dilutive of the gospel.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1838 Anonymous Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:40:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1838 Am I missing something? Didn't Paul say he becomes all things to all men so that he may win some?<br/><br/>As a biker in a bikers church, I know that we get folk coming that would not darken the door of any other 'church'.<br/><br/>However, we are not exclusively for bikers - and I don't know of any of what you call contextual churches that are exclusive to a certain group.<br/><br/>We started this because of the fact that as bikers we were looked down upon whenever we went to normal (abnormal!) churches. Thus starting a bikers place got the people we were ourselves, bikers, and others have also joined who have nothing to do with biking.<br/><br/>Are you not over analysing things a bit too much, and in the process, missing the wood for the trees?<br/><br/>Pops Am I missing something? Didn’t Paul say he becomes all things to all men so that he may win some?

As a biker in a bikers church, I know that we get folk coming that would not darken the door of any other ‘church’.

However, we are not exclusively for bikers – and I don’t know of any of what you call contextual churches that are exclusive to a certain group.

We started this because of the fact that as bikers we were looked down upon whenever we went to normal (abnormal!) churches. Thus starting a bikers place got the people we were ourselves, bikers, and others have also joined who have nothing to do with biking.

Are you not over analysing things a bit too much, and in the process, missing the wood for the trees?

Pops

]]> By: Karen http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1837 Karen Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:21:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1837 I find the "guy church" perplexing, since I've spent the majority of my life sitting through millions of sermons filled with "sports analogies" given by male ministers. It's ironic that most evangelical churches do not permit women to be ordained, and yet the people interviewed in the article feel that churches are too "feminine." hmmmm. I find the “guy church” perplexing, since I’ve spent the majority of my life sitting through millions of sermons filled with “sports analogies” given by male ministers. It’s ironic that most evangelical churches do not permit women to be ordained, and yet the people interviewed in the article feel that churches are too “feminine.” hmmmm.

]]> By: David Fitch http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1836 David Fitch Mon, 28 Jul 2008 03:36:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1836 Mike ... I think you might be getting at what I said in the earlier comment. There's a kind of contextualization that is "contextualization gone awry" which undercuts the incarnational process. Thanks for the push back. <br/>DF Mike … I think you might be getting at what I said in the earlier comment. There’s a kind of contextualization that is “contextualization gone awry” which undercuts the incarnational process. Thanks for the push back.
DF

]]> By: Mike Clawson http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1835 Mike Clawson Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:55:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1835 Hey Dave, just a little push back. I think you're being too hard on "contextualization" and perhaps defining it too narrowly and specifically. "Contextualization" as I first encountered it in the context of missiology was not at all about niche marketing as you seem to have defined it. Rather it was more similar to your idea of "incarnation". Also, it was more focused on the question of whether people in Africa, Asia, Latin America, etc. were able and allowed to practice Christianity in a way that made sense within their indigenous culture or whether they had to adopt Western practices and forms of Christianity. In other words, it was more of a post-colonial, anti-imperial idea than a consumeristic, market-driven idea. Quite frankly, what you describe as "contextualization" doesn't seem at all similar to how I came to understand the word in my missiology classes and my reading of people like Newbign, Bosch, etc.<br/><br/>Shalom,<br/>-Mike Hey Dave, just a little push back. I think you’re being too hard on “contextualization” and perhaps defining it too narrowly and specifically. “Contextualization” as I first encountered it in the context of missiology was not at all about niche marketing as you seem to have defined it. Rather it was more similar to your idea of “incarnation”. Also, it was more focused on the question of whether people in Africa, Asia, Latin America, etc. were able and allowed to practice Christianity in a way that made sense within their indigenous culture or whether they had to adopt Western practices and forms of Christianity. In other words, it was more of a post-colonial, anti-imperial idea than a consumeristic, market-driven idea. Quite frankly, what you describe as “contextualization” doesn’t seem at all similar to how I came to understand the word in my missiology classes and my reading of people like Newbign, Bosch, etc.

Shalom,
-Mike

]]> By: Jason Hesiak http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1834 Jason Hesiak Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:10:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1834 I want to go to the Fruit Loops Church, for people who realy, I mean really, like Fruit Loops. It is sponsored by Kelloggs, so there is no tithing required. I've heard that the fruits of the Spirit loop back around from helping others to helping us folks at the Fruit Loops church who helped others in the first place. It sounds to me just like the Acts two church. Full of charity, with no one in need. Oh and lots of colorful personalities, like Peter and Paul. I want to go to the Fruit Loops Church, for people who realy, I mean really, like Fruit Loops. It is sponsored by Kelloggs, so there is no tithing required. I’ve heard that the fruits of the Spirit loop back around from helping others to helping us folks at the Fruit Loops church who helped others in the first place. It sounds to me just like the Acts two church. Full of charity, with no one in need. Oh and lots of colorful personalities, like Peter and Paul.

]]> By: Jamie Arpin-Ricci http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1833 Jamie Arpin-Ricci Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:17:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1833 Thanks, David. I couldn't agree more, especially about the specific example of "real men". Many, MANY have been tragically hurt by such well-intentioned, but misguided capitulation to consumerism.<br/><br/>Peace,<br/>Jamie Thanks, David. I couldn’t agree more, especially about the specific example of “real men”. Many, MANY have been tragically hurt by such well-intentioned, but misguided capitulation to consumerism.

Peace,
Jamie

]]> By: John http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/comment-page-1/#comment-1832 John Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:10:00 +0000 http://nathancolquhoun1.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/guy-churches-the-problem-with-evangelicals-obsession-with-contextualization-and-the-alternative-incarnation/#comment-1832 I have to say that I am also having problems with your problem with contextualization. As one commenter pointed out, even the translation is contextualized. How your church does communion is contextualized. What time you meet is contextualized. I'm betting the church you attend is not the ideal church that all should be moving towards - it is hopefully what your culture(s) need in your context.<br/><br/>Maybe what we should be talking about are values that can be translated, such as<br/><br/>- faith expressed in love<br/>- mercy<br/>- community I have to say that I am also having problems with your problem with contextualization. As one commenter pointed out, even the translation is contextualized. How your church does communion is contextualized. What time you meet is contextualized. I’m betting the church you attend is not the ideal church that all should be moving towards – it is hopefully what your culture(s) need in your context.

Maybe what we should be talking about are values that can be translated, such as

- faith expressed in love
- mercy
- community

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