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	<title>Comments on: Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?</title>
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		<title>By: Wellhausen</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-27551</link>
		<dc:creator>Wellhausen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 17:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess we&#039;re forgeting the real purpose of the gospel...to live in armony..why are we attacking each other??Is that what Jesus really want?? being fighting pastor against ex-pastors?? I guess He doesn&#039;t.   
Now, the whole church is represented a as body in which there are many organs that have been called by God to do several things in the ministrie...don&#039;t behave as childs anymore... 
that&#039;s not good for showing the real point of the kingdom of God. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we&#039;re forgeting the real purpose of the gospel&#8230;to live in armony..why are we attacking each other??Is that what Jesus really want?? being fighting pastor against ex-pastors?? I guess He doesn&#039;t.<br />
Now, the whole church is represented a as body in which there are many organs that have been called by God to do several things in the ministrie&#8230;don&#039;t behave as childs anymore&#8230;<br />
that&#039;s not good for showing the real point of the kingdom of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-27434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 15:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-27434</guid>
		<description>Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher&#039;s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on - most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.

One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you&#039;ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don&#039;t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren&#039;t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) - they&#039;re just few and far between.

As far as I&#039;m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it&#039;s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it&#039;s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there&#039;s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that&#039;s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there&#039;s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher&#8217;s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on &#8211; most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see <a href="http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm</a>). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.</p>
<p>One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you&#8217;ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don&#8217;t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren&#8217;t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) &#8211; they&#8217;re just few and far between.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it&#8217;s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it&#8217;s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there&#8217;s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that&#8217;s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there&#8217;s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.</p>
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		<title>By: Black Coffee Reflections &#187; My Take on Andy Rowell&#39;s Article in CT About Those Leaving the Pastorate to Write and Speak &#187; the blog of the one and only Tim Ghali</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-27309</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Coffee Reflections &#187; My Take on Andy Rowell&#39;s Article in CT About Those Leaving the Pastorate to Write and Speak &#187; the blog of the one and only Tim Ghali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 03:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-27309</guid>
		<description>[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch&#8217;s post, &#8220;Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?&#8221;. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch&#8217;s post, &#8220;Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?&#8221;. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Black Coffee Reflections &#187; My Take on Andy Rowell&#8217;s Article in CT About Those Leaving the Pastorate to Write and Speak &#187; There are some who call me Tim&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26897</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Coffee Reflections &#187; My Take on Andy Rowell&#8217;s Article in CT About Those Leaving the Pastorate to Write and Speak &#187; There are some who call me Tim&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 19:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26897</guid>
		<description>[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch&#8217;s post, &#8220;Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?&#8221;. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch&#8217;s post, &#8220;Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?&#8221;. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kit McDermott</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26877</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit McDermott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 13:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26877</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more. The blogging I do comes straight from what I experience in trying to launch imagine/Northampton as a 61 year old. 

While I have been in para-church ministry for 20 years prior, the experience I&#039;ve had of the joys and sorrows of missional church planting has deepened being a Jesus-follower immeasurably. There is nothing like it and staying connected to the on-going life of our little band of redemptive subversives keeps my feet on the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more. The blogging I do comes straight from what I experience in trying to launch imagine/Northampton as a 61 year old. </p>
<p>While I have been in para-church ministry for 20 years prior, the experience I&#8217;ve had of the joys and sorrows of missional church planting has deepened being a Jesus-follower immeasurably. There is nothing like it and staying connected to the on-going life of our little band of redemptive subversives keeps my feet on the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26875</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 13:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26875</guid>
		<description>Hey Jim, 
Thanks for chiming in here. After reading your response over there at Scot&#039;s blog, my response would be that I think everyone  including me gets the need for a Sabbatical. In fact your trajectory at church planting and book writing is similar to mine ...so I get what 17 years of preaching every Sunday can do to a person ... so common so many years ago ... I think it&#039;s wearing on an individual and is negative for a church too  ... I salute the way you have positioned your church for sustainability ... so God bless this time for you and your family!! 
 
I am sure you will stay a participant in the local church ... and I am sure N T Wright and many others will do as well ...
    MY questions continue to linger ... as to whether it is ever wise to build churches on single individuals... are they sustainable period? But this is a topic for another time ... it concerns me deeply that pastors&#039; lives are not sustainable over longer periods of time ... 
   
 Al ... I&#039;ve always appreciated the way IVP looks for new authors ... and shepherds books ...
peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jim,<br />
Thanks for chiming in here. After reading your response over there at Scot&#8217;s blog, my response would be that I think everyone  including me gets the need for a Sabbatical. In fact your trajectory at church planting and book writing is similar to mine &#8230;so I get what 17 years of preaching every Sunday can do to a person &#8230; so common so many years ago &#8230; I think it&#8217;s wearing on an individual and is negative for a church too  &#8230; I salute the way you have positioned your church for sustainability &#8230; so God bless this time for you and your family!! </p>
<p>I am sure you will stay a participant in the local church &#8230; and I am sure N T Wright and many others will do as well &#8230;<br />
    MY questions continue to linger &#8230; as to whether it is ever wise to build churches on single individuals&#8230; are they sustainable period? But this is a topic for another time &#8230; it concerns me deeply that pastors&#8217; lives are not sustainable over longer periods of time &#8230; </p>
<p> Al &#8230; I&#8217;ve always appreciated the way IVP looks for new authors &#8230; and shepherds books &#8230;<br />
peace</p>
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		<title>By: Al Hsu</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26874</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Hsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 12:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26874</guid>
		<description>Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher&#039;s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on - most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.

One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you&#039;ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don&#039;t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren&#039;t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) - they&#039;re just few and far between.

As far as I&#039;m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it&#039;s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it&#039;s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there&#039;s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that&#039;s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there&#039;s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher&#8217;s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on &#8211; most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see <a href="http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm</a>). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.</p>
<p>One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you&#8217;ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don&#8217;t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren&#8217;t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) &#8211; they&#8217;re just few and far between.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it&#8217;s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it&#8217;s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there&#8217;s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that&#8217;s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there&#8217;s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Belcher</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Belcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 05:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26844</guid>
		<description>Hey Friends,

Here is my response to the CT article about me leaving Redeemer. It is response #18 on the Jesus Creed blog. I hope it helps shed light on my stepping out of Redeemer. 

http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/2010/05/is-the-local-church-the-farm-t_comments.html

Shalom,
Jim Belcher
Deep Church</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Friends,</p>
<p>Here is my response to the CT article about me leaving Redeemer. It is response #18 on the Jesus Creed blog. I hope it helps shed light on my stepping out of Redeemer. </p>
<p><a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/2010/05/is-the-local-church-the-farm-t_comments.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/2010/05/is-the-local-church-the-farm-t_comments.html</a></p>
<p>Shalom,<br />
Jim Belcher<br />
Deep Church</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26827</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 01:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26827</guid>
		<description>Dan, 
good words, I too respect Ed, although he and I might differ on a few ... er more than a few things ;). I once asked him about the churches he planted ... whether they were still going ... I loved his answers, his experience ...Of course there are reasons, good missiological reasons, to be wary about pragmatism and the tabulation of numbers ... &quot;what exactly are we counting? is always a necessary question ... And I always find  real life stories are indisputable ...  
Blessings on your labors there at Vintage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,<br />
good words, I too respect Ed, although he and I might differ on a few &#8230; er more than a few things <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> . I once asked him about the churches he planted &#8230; whether they were still going &#8230; I loved his answers, his experience &#8230;Of course there are reasons, good missiological reasons, to be wary about pragmatism and the tabulation of numbers &#8230; &#8220;what exactly are we counting? is always a necessary question &#8230; And I always find  real life stories are indisputable &#8230;<br />
Blessings on your labors there at Vintage</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/do-you-trust-an-author-on-the-church-who-leaves-hisher-church/comment-page-1/#comment-26823</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 23:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=1096#comment-26823</guid>
		<description>I have had similar thoughts (not about the authors you mention as those are recent changes for them). But when someone is writing about &quot;missional&quot; or preaching or issues of church leadership, I want to know what their context of experience is they are writing from. 

It&#039;s always an awkward and even taboo question to ask actually, but if someone is talking or writing on a topic about &quot;missional&quot; or church leadership or evangelism I want to hear how it has been fleshed out in real life in their church. 

One author who wrote a book on mission/evangelism told me they haven&#039;t seen someone trust in Jesus in several years in their church. This goes for blog writers too. Another blog author writing on missional church and criticizing people, it turns out wasn&#039;t even leading a church. He tried leading a house church and it folded. Yet, by the way he was writing, it came off as authoratative on the subject. 

So in both these cases (one actual published author and one blog author) I was caught offguard when you explored their actual experience. So I have been specifically asking about one&#039;s actual experience and their churches. How long have they been in existence, what is the size of the church (I know numbers are decieving depending on how used, but it does help give a context and you can ask about seasons and years not just instant numbers). Most important stories of lives changed in their churches to listen to. 

I might be off topic a little. But I do think it is important to be asking these types of questions. I understand that every church is different,different context of local community) but important to ask I think when listening to someone&#039;s teaching or writing. 

I like listening to Ed Stetzer as he is a researcher, but also is always on staff at a church, even when he fills in and I believe he has a good feel of real life church when he speaks, even though a lot of it is research.

It all depends on what the author is writing about too. NT Wright I don&#039;t turn to for leadership of church issues, I turn to him for NT theology. Even though he has been ingrained in the local church from part of his role, it is so different and that doesn&#039;t seem to be his expertise. 

Thanks for raising this up - it is uncomfortable, but an inportant thing. 

Thanks for raising this up, I</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had similar thoughts (not about the authors you mention as those are recent changes for them). But when someone is writing about &#8220;missional&#8221; or preaching or issues of church leadership, I want to know what their context of experience is they are writing from. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s always an awkward and even taboo question to ask actually, but if someone is talking or writing on a topic about &#8220;missional&#8221; or church leadership or evangelism I want to hear how it has been fleshed out in real life in their church. </p>
<p>One author who wrote a book on mission/evangelism told me they haven&#8217;t seen someone trust in Jesus in several years in their church. This goes for blog writers too. Another blog author writing on missional church and criticizing people, it turns out wasn&#8217;t even leading a church. He tried leading a house church and it folded. Yet, by the way he was writing, it came off as authoratative on the subject. </p>
<p>So in both these cases (one actual published author and one blog author) I was caught offguard when you explored their actual experience. So I have been specifically asking about one&#8217;s actual experience and their churches. How long have they been in existence, what is the size of the church (I know numbers are decieving depending on how used, but it does help give a context and you can ask about seasons and years not just instant numbers). Most important stories of lives changed in their churches to listen to. </p>
<p>I might be off topic a little. But I do think it is important to be asking these types of questions. I understand that every church is different,different context of local community) but important to ask I think when listening to someone&#8217;s teaching or writing. </p>
<p>I like listening to Ed Stetzer as he is a researcher, but also is always on staff at a church, even when he fills in and I believe he has a good feel of real life church when he speaks, even though a lot of it is research.</p>
<p>It all depends on what the author is writing about too. NT Wright I don&#8217;t turn to for leadership of church issues, I turn to him for NT theology. Even though he has been ingrained in the local church from part of his role, it is so different and that doesn&#8217;t seem to be his expertise. </p>
<p>Thanks for raising this up &#8211; it is uncomfortable, but an inportant thing. </p>
<p>Thanks for raising this up, I</p>
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