Ah em … it seems that my friend Andy Rowell, in a CT article, has taken on a subject all too often swept under the rug. The title of Rowell’s article (HT Nathan Smith) is “Jim Belcher, Francis Chan, N.T. Wright, and Others Leave the Pastorate to Write and Speak.” Now I like all of these guys. I have nothing to say against them personally. Indeed, there are times when pastors (seminary professors) are carrying on ministry that surpasses the confines of the local church. My general disposition is nonetheless, to see this as a bad move.
I am frustrated by the way leadership through publishing takes one out of the local church by which our very theology and practice should be formed. I believe the theology of the future, the shape of the church to come, is better led through people engaging real life in the church and writing from it. If one’s theology does not sustain oneself in the church, why should I trust it in my own ministry/life in the church?
This goes for seminary professors, speakers at conferences, books that have pervasive influence in the church but seem to be sadly lacking in the practical in-life-concreteness that drives the questions and production of theology that should change the church. I think we should ask publishers, why should we listen to people who are detached from life in the church leadership? Again, I am sure there are occasions where this makes sense, but we should ask nonetheless.
I have thought this through a couple of times. I’ve thought about the advantages of going on the speaker tour, writing more popular books, leave the church and relax in a cabin somewhere and pump out no less than one book a year. But to me, and this is just me, it doesn’t work.
Here’s Three Reasons Why I Can’t Leave Ministry En Toto To Publish More Books
1.) There’s this weird thing that happens to you when you stand up in front of people as the expert on church (whether its missional church, missional theology or whatever). You become detached from real life, you start to take on a persona, and start telling people what you think they need to do. This to me is a waste of time. It’s a flimsy moment that vanishes with little fruit. Many just turn off, and I find it’s impact is minimal. And yet I cannot avoid this disposition any other way than by staying grounded in a community, being humbled again and again, allowing my life and ministry to be in submission to a real life Body of Christ, being grounded in the day to day mess that is church. It enables me to go speak as one among, listening and inviting a conversation, and providing some signposts for new directions out of my numerous experience and theological work. .
2.) My theology and writing is improved so much by my being involved in real life church with other pastors working out the issues we confront in the vast new frontiers of church and mission. My writing would become purely theoretical if I wasn’t grounded in church life. Sure I can engage with multiple stories that I hear etc… but nothing shapes the theology I write like real life issues in the church.
3.) The proof or test of what you’re writing is in the actual outworking of it in the church. If it can’t sustain you in ministry why should anyone think it can sustain them in theirs? Enough said.
It is a symbol of the sick American church culture that we make experts of people who write books. I do not wish to disaparage everyone who has left church to write books. There are alot of them who do it for a season and it makes sense. There are alot of them who stay involved in church and its leadership in other ways than being a pastor. And for full disclosure sake, I have 2 books coming out later this year and next, and I am a part-time pastor (not full time) and full time professor and I try to spend time in the neighborhoods (which for me is McD’s, hockey rinks, friends down the street).
Here’s hoping for a theology and missiology that receives its life from God’s work in the local church. Peace to all those who disagree with me …
What about you? Do you trust an author on the church who has left his/her church to write books and speak?
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Thanks for this post in particular and the blog in general. I am a fan. I agree with your thoughts above. However, I do think there are times where a pastor may see that the change he needs to make in his DNA is not consistent with where the church is or where the church is headed. In this situation, leaving a church to plant or pastor another church can make sense.
I am hopeful this is the case. An “expert” removed from the practice will not be an expert for long.
Thanks for writing this, David. It is hard to analyze this phenomenon without seeming like a jerk, but you pulled it off.
Generally, I think people should avoid being a full-time Christian writer and speaker. The industry doesn’t really allow for deep community, mutuality, submission, etc. that are essential for nurturing a cruciform imagination. Though there are always exceptions, I suppose.
But the sticky wicket in this is how do we call people to something better? Those with the largest platforms tend to be those who have become detached from community; therefore, the loudest voices are the ones embracing the very thing you are critiquing. And the ones who embrace stability speak with a much quieter voice.
Dave –
Great thoughts.
Question: can you think of true, daily-life missional practitioners (those neck-deep in leadership of their church) who are also sought-out authors (besides yourself, of course)?
I can think of Dan Kimball and Rick McKinley.
Anyone else come to mind?
Well, that depends upon “sought out author.” There is a reason folks leave communities to write and speak–because it lets them have a larger platform. Each of the folks listed were sought-out-authors–which is why they left their communities (in part).
Not that he is a perfect fit, but authors like Wendell Berry give us a glimpse at an author who is compelling precisely because he stays put.
J.R. – I would offer Gibbons, Chan, and Platt.
Additionally, I will suggest that for a person to receive compensation for being in the ministry, it makes missional living much, much more difficult. If someone meets their financial needs or even a good portion of their financial needs through writing (whether Christian or not), teaching (whether at a seminary or not), recording music, etc., a real missional lifestyle is much easier to embrace and live out. When paid to do the ministry, an individual is prone to veer from a missional life and to lose clarity of motive(s).
One point of clarification not made in the CT article – there’s a world of difference between an professor or pastor who decides retire after decades of work, so they can focus on their writing/speaking and a someone who decides to cash in on the buzz built by whatever group they started by hitting the author/speaker circuit.
Almost an M – what you’re describing is a holistic way to try and create a sustainable ministry provided of course that one makes decisions about how to fund the ministry in consultation with a trusted group of advisors to ensure that the gigs, books, etc. one does is in sync with the ministry’s overall vision and not just a chance to cash in by creating some cool Xn performance art.
Mark – I hear you bud. That’s one of the reasons why I’ve been having some major talks with folks like Andrew Jones and Kurt Nielson (Urban Iona). They’ve been seminal in helping me rethink my travels so that I am going as a fellow pilgrim in search of stories to tell and stuff to satirize and not an author/speaker placed on a pedestal.
Thought-provoking stuff, thanks. Maybe it’s because I’m biased, but I wouldn’t include Wright in the same category as Belcher and Chan, in part because of the nature of their work. Wright isn’t primarily writing books that aim at the average church-goer (Chan) and he’s not writing books about what shape the church should take on the ground (Belcher). It seems silly to me to leave the church so as to be better freed up for either of the latter two. (I don’t know the details of either man’s ministry or what they plan to do next, so I’m speaking from a distance).
As for Wright, because I have been challenged as a result almost solely of his writings, which have slowed down during his time as a Bishop, I am excited to see this change. And I don’t just speak personally but as a young pastor – my ministry on the ground has been much improved because of his theological and exegetical help.
And maybe I’m less concerned about him because, to be honest, I’ve always felt the need to do quite a bit of work to take his thought from where he writes them to where I minister them. I do hope his pastoral work as a bishop will lessen that gap in his writings from here on out.
One other thought on the last comment about being freed up to live missionally by earning a living through writing Xn books. To me this feels kind of like a copout. I’m sure it’s just a defense mechanism on my part, but it sometimes feels funny for Frank Viola to talk about the clergy problem when he’s making money from me buying his books. I could be totally off-base (and I’m not knocking him personally), but it seems a bit like cheating to me.
While I agree with a lot of what is said in the original post, I see a trend in the comments that is disturbing. The post is primarily about leaving a pastorate for a full-time writing/teaching/speaking gig. And yet some of the comments seem to imply that one cannot even be a vital part of the church community (not just the pastorate) when this decision is made.
Mark writes “The [writing/speaking/etc...] industry doesn’t really allow for deep community, mutuality, submission, etc. that are essential for nurturing a cruciform imagination.” Are we assuming that those who write or speak for a living are going to lead a life outside of the church? It seems like many of these follow up comments assume that a guy like N.T. Wright or Francis Chan aren’t going to play a vital role in a local community. Is that really true? I don’t know. But I don’t think any of us do. So we might want to hold off on saying too much in that regard.
Mike – Yes, one “can” be a part of a community and also function as a full time writer/speaker. Shane Claiborne comes to mind mainly because I interviewed him last week on this topic but obviously there are others.
And my assessment is that those like N.T. Wright will remain connected to the church in some fashion.
My observations is that when someone sets off on the writing/speaking circuit, all too often, they are heading out as a solo pioneer who is no longer really connected to a community except maybe peripherally. You can see a shift in their work as it becomes less about the community that fed their original work and more about trying to put on a show that will attract the masses.
I understand the danger Becky (and others). I just think we are making a lot of assumptions about these men (interesting that they are all men). Here is what I wrote on the CT site:
——————————————-
I get the idea of the article, but it just doesn’t come together. Jim Belcher explicitly says “I’m leaving to write a book,” yet Chan appears to be walking towards planting some sort of new urban ministry. N.T. Wright leaves “the pastorate” (sort of, more so the episcopate) to go back to what he was doing first anyway, and Piper is thrown in for no apparent reason — he is stepping back to reassess his spiritual vitality, not to write books or go on a speaking tour. And Peterson…is he a prime example of a “pastor-theologian?” A “writer-preacher?” Putting all of these pastors into the same article just doesn’t make sense. It hides the reality of the current situation in the lives of almost everyone of them. Respectfully, I don’t get it Mr. Rowell.
Mike – I interviewed Jonathan Wilson Hartgrove for the God’s Politics blog to talk about the dangers of disconnecting from one’s community as that was the piece that I feel needs to be explored further. Some of the people mentioned in this article do fit this profile though I agree that there was an attempt to extrapolate from end to trend that wasn’t accurate in some cases.
I’m not surprised their all men in the least given they were focusing on the type of author/speakers who tend to profiled in CT given the mag’s evangelical focus.
Of course I agree with Becky and Mike that there are writers, thinkers, speakers writers who can stay immersed in the life of ac ommunity and its leadership without being a primary pastor … and there are several doing it … but what about the one who isolates him or herself to prudce more writing … who travels 30 sundays a year … I think then this changes the nature of the way theology and practical theology is written … indeed the various publishing forces can have profound and negative effects … I think Mark is right on this account … just think about those who write one or two books a year … books that start to repeat themselves … and yet the publishing industry continues to elevate their voice … these “forces” have an untold impact on not only the author/speaker but the church that becomes infliuenced by them …
Mike writes, “Putting all of these pastors into the same article just doesn’t make sense.” All of these folks (Piper, Peterson, Chan, Belcher, McLaren and Rollins) have left the pastorate (Piper temporarily) partly because of the pressures/opportunities of writing books. Whether there are any other things in common or if there is any significance to this phenomenon is up to you to decide.
Ikon is an artists collective not a church plant. That is a very important distinction. In fact, a number of gatherings I’ve seen that at times get labeled “church plants” strike me as being more akin to an salon of sorts similar to say the gatherings hosted by Killing the Buddha (a site where I’ve been playing this past year). I love going to these events for intellectual and spiritual stimulation but I don’t see the people leading these gatherings as “pastors” in any real sense of the term. I’ll leave it up to those of you in the field to parse these terms but I think we need a bit of nuance here.
David – I’m with you here. I was more playing devil’s advocate by not jumping to conclusions by assuming that everyone who is leaving the pastorate is “selling out.” The larger issue for me is how the person and their work becomes changed (and as you pointed out not for the better) when they disconnect themselves from the community that fed their original work. IMO, it goes from beautiful to bland.
Becky – yep, I’m with you as well. Thanks for coming on the blog.
I understand the question being raised here by David. I just don’t see how all the names connect in the article. I’ll just have to disagree on that Andy. It’s cool. We don’t have to agree. It just seems that all of these men have taken different steps and for vastly different reasons (some of which you and I are privy to). I read in the CT post that you did not choose the title or subtitle of the piece Andy, so I won’t hold you to that.
Like Michael, I’m kinda biased, but I don’t think that N.T. Wright belongs in the same category. He’s leaving his post as bishop (which is an enormous job, but not the same as parish ministry). And he’s always been in the academic world. Don’t we read plenty of other academics who never step into parish ministry?
Yes, they need to be connected to local manifestations of church, but no, they don’t need to stay in ‘ministry’. Sometimes we need to ‘go’ rather than ‘stay’.
Thank you so much for writing this. I agree wholeheartedly. I am a church-planter in Madrid, Spain and can say by experience that learning grows deeper through practice so teachers should practice, practice, practice while praying, thinking, and seeking.
To throw another thought into the mix– isn’t it possible some of these leaders are realizing after years in ministry that their gifting is apostolic in nature rather than pastoral? Maybe some (or all, for that matter) of these leaders will be more effective as they take on a wider responsibility.
How about we stop and look at how empire is part of what makes the move to publishing instead of pastoring possible?
Copyright law is created and sustained by empire. The idea that ideas, which naturally spread freely, should be held inside little boxes which one has to pay to open is one which relies on empire to protect it.
If writers were giving away more of their work it would spread more quickly, and they would not be able to leave the pastorate. The attraction of royalties would not cloud their decision-making process.
The world is moving toward free books more and more. The church can lead on this issue, suffocate publishing houses, flood the market with culture-influencing works, and move toward more cooperative frameworks. It is an absolute shame that church have to pay each other for Sunday School materials or worship music.
Good stuff and an issue I have wrestled with for 20 years of church and community ministry. I’ve listened to too many “you shoulds” over the years, “You should write books.” being one of them.
I agree with your reservations and questions about all of this and I have often asked them while sitting in a hall at a pastor’s convention listening to some big name author and scratching my head over the “Why is this guy/gal and expert; because of some sort of “success”?” Now a significant % of the pastors and church leaders sitting here will go home and try to clone success…
I’ve detected a thread in some of the responses placing value on “platform size” with some anxiety about the voices we maybe should be listening to being smaller and quieter but I don’t understand how that is a problem; in fact and practice, maybe platform envy is a root problem.
I don’t believe there’s any compelling reason to diminish the impact of small scale process disciple making, after all, was our commission to mass market Western Christendom or to go and make disciples?
I am an avid reader with an almost pathological desire to consume books, so I am glad people are gifted and called to write, but as I lean back and scan a wall of books none remain that were once the “hot thing” fresh from Zondervan or some other mega publisher, on church growth or “success.” Even the gurus of missional/emergent need to take a vacation from their book tours and sojourn with a small church for a few months…
I just read from Barth’s Prot Theol in the 19th Cent …” Luther, two days before his death, wrote on a scrap of paper: ‘No one can understand Virgil … unless he has been a farmer for fifty years. No one can understand Cicero in his letters unless he has been involved for twenty years in the life of a powerful state. Let no one think that he has tasted Holy Scripture unless he has for a centruy ecclesias gubernarit and has been responsible for the Church.’ We can know history only when … we participate in it …” … I thot that resonated with these comments and posts … can’t know understand church, Scripture without being a participant in it …
I get the thrust of the argument here, but I always wonder what’s playing on the screen in our heads when we use the word “church.” Have these authors really left church or are they simply no longer on staff. There’s a difference. And what is church? There seems to be a specific, albeit limited, image in mind with this article.
Also the argument related to “experts” seems to trip over itself by making only church practitioners qualified to write and speak on the subject. I think its a symbol of our sick American culture that we make clergy experts on church, ecclesiology, liturgy, and so forth. NO ONE is an expert. All any writer or speaker can do is add his or her interpretation to the discourse. Credibility will come via what rings true and connected to what’s real in the lives of the hearers. At that point, no one cares about pedigree, and why should they.
Jesus was a common laborer. By the standards in this article he shouldn’t be trusted to speak about the nature of the church.
This, of course, is my interpretation.
Zach,
I think you raise a valid point … but I can’t go with the fuller implications of it … to me the church is a set of concrete practices, it’s real … it’s a politic in the world … and so some of my work has been occupied with arguing against the etherealization – de-materialization of the church … granted … another part of my work is against the way the institution of the church has been reified into something that makes sense only within Christendom (and in that, it doesn’t make sense) … So in the end, for me … the isolation of the author is as unacceptable as the isolation of the Christian from the social realities of a politic called church in the world … What your comment calls us to focus on is important nonetheless … that we need to be discerning as to what is “church” and what might participation in that look like that is different from our unexamined assumptions
peace
I can trust an author without them having to be in a specific position of leadership. In many ways I really admire some of these guys for taking a break to do these projects. I’ve seen firsthand the cost to a church by having their senior pastor involved in writing projects.
To me the bigger question here is why we feel the need to judge, control, or make somebody take the same exact journey as us. I’d suggest Gamaliel’s approach with this stuff–leave them alone and see what results. If their printed work doesn’t have any value their readers will quickly figure that out. But perhaps taking a step back from their normal or previous duties is exactly what was needed for them, their church and their readers.
I have not read the article in full or all of the comments, but I have to say briefly that I agree with Chad (directly above). I feel that each of us must take the journey God has set before us, and for some of us that means in order to be productive as a writer (or in some other field God calls us to), we must step away from active ministry. I think of Eugene Peterson, who stepped away from his ministry of 20+ years in Maryland to work full-time on his translation of the Message. Certainly I would say God has used his work, even though he was not plugged in full-time as a pastor while he wrote it. Just my two cents…
Kevin
David,
We seem to have different comfort levels with “de-materialization,” which is cool with me. Just don’t summarize me as a de-materializer. (Which I don’t believe you would do.)
I’ve got some concrete too, i.e the “word”, “bath, and “table,” as articulated by Gordon Lathrop. That’s about is concrete as I am comfortable with. I’d argue its still fresh clay.
I also don’t disagree with the value of hearing from folks who have their hands on the stuff they’re talking about. That’s a good thing. I’m just not sure these folks would qualify as isolated from the content of their writing and speaking.
And what about the monastic trajectory of leaving something in order to find a better way of being attentive to it. I’m not assuming this is the practice of the writers you have mentioned, but it is a chosen trajectory for some.
I appreciate the conversation you’ve sparked here. It is a good and worthwhile one.
Zach … you and I are speaking on the same wave length here … thanks for the clarification …
Chad …. in answer to your words “To me the bigger question here is why we feel the need to judge, control, or make somebody take the same exact journey as us.” … quite directly … because the American church has become directed from the authority produced by the publishing industry … and someone needs to ask why do we give such authority to the industry of publishing … but yes we agree .. the fruit will become apparent … eventually … as it already is … That doesn’t mean we sit by and watch idly for thirty years while the fruit of the church disappears without asking why …
peace bro … thanks for pushing!
[...] Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church? [...]
I think most of us can agree that each person being evaluated in this issue brings very diverse and unique dynamics to play. Therefore, it is hard to speak about such a broad topic without stating generalities that won’t apply to all of them. But the question is a good one and your post, David, is timely.
It is interesting for me as I am just signing a contract with a publisher for my book. Now, I highly doubt it will result in the kind of buzz that would offer me the opportunity to write/speak outside of the church full time, so perhaps my situation does not well apply. However, I can only speak from my context.
One thing that is exciting for me in my upcoming book is that it strongly reflects an understanding and engagement with Scripture through the context of our community. Without having wrestled through the content in my community, the material would not have been as strong or compelling. This is a major draw for writers & speakers to maintain a strong tie to local, grassroots community. Many of them do, but as has been stated, many travel to a degree that would make such involvement impossible. While this might work for a season (and even there I am skeptical), I do not believe it is ideal or sustainable.
Of course people who aren’t in active pastoral roles still have much to teach us. I don’t think David is suggesting otherwise. Rather, it is the wider trend that we see where voices given central authority in Christian publishing are not always (or even often) representative of the actual people/communities reading it. The disconnect seem to increase with growing influence & popularity. This is a genuine risk that needs to be stated & addressed. I think David has done that well here.
Peace,
Jamie
“For everything there is a season…” (Eccl 3.1, NRSV).
I quote that bit of wisdom to say that I suppose it depends on who the author/speaker is and what his/her circumstances are whther resigning from an official ‘clergy’ role with a church is a good thing or not. In the case of N.T. Wright, I don’t see this as a bad thing. Taking on a research professor chair at St. Andrews will hopefully give him the time necessary to finish his “Christian Origins and the Question of God” project which has and will be an immense service to the church. In other cases (and I won’t name names), leaving the trenches of ministry seems to have had a negative impact on the author/speaker.
Grace and peace,
Rex
[...] writing articles and books, speaking, etc. There is an interesting discussion on this going on at David Fitch’s blog [...]
As many have noted, there are so many different reasons that these choices are made. It is hard to make over-arching observations. Francis Chan is apparently seeking God’s will for a new incarnational ministry. NT Wright is a New Testament scholar who is deeply connected to the church but it seems to me is appropriately devoted to his scholarship. Count me among the many who hope he can keep writing more.
The trajectory that concerns me is when someone seems to leave the church because they plan to publish ideas that are moving them beyond the historic orthodoxy of their tradition or church. In these case leaving for the publishing circuit seems to be a move to avoid spiritual accountability to a local congregation.
Am I just paranoid or does anyone else think that this motivation prompts some of these moves?
[...] pastors becoming full-time conference speakers and authors a good thing? Elsewhere on the web, David Fitch chimes in with his (always reasonable) thoughts: …I am frustrated by the way leadership through [...]
I started writing a response and it went long…so I am publishing it over at JesusManifesto.com…I’d appreciate if you all could take a look and comment:
http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2010/05/publishing-apostles/
This is a very beneficial and thought-provoking post. I’m also grateful for the respectful tone of the comments.
As someone who views his writing as part of my ministry, this is a helpful discussion. I agree that my writing becomes significantly more practical and useful to the degree that I am plugged in to a Christian community.
One mistake we can make in this discussion is labeling someone in pastoral ministry as something that’s always a positive. I have a lot of respect for my pastors, but to be quite frank, I think there’s a lot about pastoral ministry that can be just as unhealthy as our Christian publishing industry. I don’t know where that leaves us, but provided writers are connected with Christian community, there may be some very good reasons for some to leave pastoral positions since every church is a bit different. It’s far from a black and white concept.
If I could also push back a bit with Nathanael… There are a lot of ugly parts of publishing, even Christian publishing. I’ve been crushed by some of those ugly things and I’ve done my best to avoid the other unsavory parts that others have hinted at. However, it’s too simplistic to say we should always give our writing away. Good books take years to produce and the profit margin is ridiculously low. Most writers aren’t in it for the money. Most, not all of course.
Publishing is about sharing your ideas in their best form in an accessible format to a wide audience. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Editors and designers can significantly improve the content of a book, and I have no problem paying for a book that has gone through so thorough a process. I give away all of my ideas for free on my blog, but for a carefully written, closely edited version that you can carry with you, you’ll need to buy my book. I’m exploring free ebooks more and even have some available, but believe me, most of your favorite books wouldn’t be half as good without significant editorial development at a commercial publishing house. Until philanthropists pay for editorial development, we’ll be stuck with charging something for our books.
I have had similar thoughts (not about the authors you mention as those are recent changes for them). But when someone is writing about “missional” or preaching or issues of church leadership, I want to know what their context of experience is they are writing from.
It’s always an awkward and even taboo question to ask actually, but if someone is talking or writing on a topic about “missional” or church leadership or evangelism I want to hear how it has been fleshed out in real life in their church.
One author who wrote a book on mission/evangelism told me they haven’t seen someone trust in Jesus in several years in their church. This goes for blog writers too. Another blog author writing on missional church and criticizing people, it turns out wasn’t even leading a church. He tried leading a house church and it folded. Yet, by the way he was writing, it came off as authoratative on the subject.
So in both these cases (one actual published author and one blog author) I was caught offguard when you explored their actual experience. So I have been specifically asking about one’s actual experience and their churches. How long have they been in existence, what is the size of the church (I know numbers are decieving depending on how used, but it does help give a context and you can ask about seasons and years not just instant numbers). Most important stories of lives changed in their churches to listen to.
I might be off topic a little. But I do think it is important to be asking these types of questions. I understand that every church is different,different context of local community) but important to ask I think when listening to someone’s teaching or writing.
I like listening to Ed Stetzer as he is a researcher, but also is always on staff at a church, even when he fills in and I believe he has a good feel of real life church when he speaks, even though a lot of it is research.
It all depends on what the author is writing about too. NT Wright I don’t turn to for leadership of church issues, I turn to him for NT theology. Even though he has been ingrained in the local church from part of his role, it is so different and that doesn’t seem to be his expertise.
Thanks for raising this up – it is uncomfortable, but an inportant thing.
Thanks for raising this up, I
Dan,
. I once asked him about the churches he planted … whether they were still going … I loved his answers, his experience …Of course there are reasons, good missiological reasons, to be wary about pragmatism and the tabulation of numbers … “what exactly are we counting? is always a necessary question … And I always find real life stories are indisputable …
good words, I too respect Ed, although he and I might differ on a few … er more than a few things
Blessings on your labors there at Vintage
Hey Friends,
Here is my response to the CT article about me leaving Redeemer. It is response #18 on the Jesus Creed blog. I hope it helps shed light on my stepping out of Redeemer.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/2010/05/is-the-local-church-the-farm-t_comments.html
Shalom,
Jim Belcher
Deep Church
Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher’s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on – most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.
One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you’ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don’t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren’t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) – they’re just few and far between.
As far as I’m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it’s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it’s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there’s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that’s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there’s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.
Hey Jim,
Thanks for chiming in here. After reading your response over there at Scot’s blog, my response would be that I think everyone including me gets the need for a Sabbatical. In fact your trajectory at church planting and book writing is similar to mine …so I get what 17 years of preaching every Sunday can do to a person … so common so many years ago … I think it’s wearing on an individual and is negative for a church too … I salute the way you have positioned your church for sustainability … so God bless this time for you and your family!!
I am sure you will stay a participant in the local church … and I am sure N T Wright and many others will do as well …
MY questions continue to linger … as to whether it is ever wise to build churches on single individuals… are they sustainable period? But this is a topic for another time … it concerns me deeply that pastors’ lives are not sustainable over longer periods of time …
Al … I’ve always appreciated the way IVP looks for new authors … and shepherds books …
peace
I couldn’t agree more. The blogging I do comes straight from what I experience in trying to launch imagine/Northampton as a 61 year old.
While I have been in para-church ministry for 20 years prior, the experience I’ve had of the joys and sorrows of missional church planting has deepened being a Jesus-follower immeasurably. There is nothing like it and staying connected to the on-going life of our little band of redemptive subversives keeps my feet on the ground.
[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch’s post, “Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?”. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]
[...] I absolutely loved David Fitch’s post, “Do You Trust an Author on the Church Who Leaves His/Her Church?”. After I read it, I decided not to post this (then I read something else and I changed my mind). [...]
Coming late to this thread, but just wanted to say something from a publisher’s point of view. The vast majority of books do not sell enough for anybody to live on – most new books today sell 3000 copies or far less (see http://www.bkpextranet.com/AuthorMaterials/10AwfulTruths.htm). So most authors have a day job. Most of our authors are professors or pastors. A very tiny percentage of authors make their living entirely by writing and speaking.
One of the biggest paradoxes of publishing is that some of the most thoughtful, reflective, insightful writing is done by people you’ve never heard of. But for a book to be viable for a major publisher, the author needs to be someone people have heard of. And many people who are big-name speakers don’t have the time or space to do a lot of original thinking and writing, so their books start sounding the same every year. We want to find people with the visibility of the conference speaker but who is able to write with depth and substantive content, informed by a local ministry context beyond the conference circuit. Not that there aren’t people like that out there (including rock stars like Wright and McKnight) – they’re just few and far between.
As far as I’m concerned, if everybody has heard of someone, it’s too late. If nobody has heard of them, it’s too early. But if some people have heard of them and there’s a bit of a vibe that they have fresh insight to contribute, that’s a good sign. So I am always looking for the unpublished, first-time author (and we at IVP actually publish a higher percentage of first-time authors than many publishers). On the one hand there’s nothing new under the sun, but on the other hand the church will always need new voices and new authors to speak to such a time as this.
I guess we're forgeting the real purpose of the gospel…to live in armony..why are we attacking each other??Is that what Jesus really want?? being fighting pastor against ex-pastors?? I guess He doesn't.
Now, the whole church is represented a as body in which there are many organs that have been called by God to do several things in the ministrie…don't behave as childs anymore…
that's not good for showing the real point of the kingdom of God.