I was sitting in our gathering this past Sunday noticing the numbers of people who weren’t there. This is a bad habit for pastors. Nonetheless I shamefully imbibed.
The space
was full yet several people were missing. We only seat about 200 and we sit in the round so it’s easy to notice missing people. We’ve gone through some strange turnover in the last couple years and I grieve when it happens. Sometimes I’ve grieved for months over someone who has left.
I think pastors should be careful about the nature of this grief. I don’t think we should be casual when people leave (“they didn’t agree with us – it was time they found another church”). On the other hand, there are other times when we should understand this is the way God shapes a community. People are going to move – sometimes for wrong reasons, sometimes for good ones. We should seek them out, discern the will of God with them and bless them in their sending.
The main issue here in church turnover is what God is doing to form His Kingdom. I once heard Darrell Guder say “stop looking at visitors as new members – instead ask “what purpose God has for sending these persons here?” In the same presentation I heard Guder say “The apostles never went out to save anyone … they went out to call together a community to witness to God’s Kingdom.” Although I don’t necessarily subscribe to the first part of that statement, Guder puts church turnover into context.
I urge four things in relation to turnover.
1. Be intentional about calling people into the Kingdom. Each visitor, each person becoming part of the church community, needs to be nurtured into life in the Kingdom. The pastors and leaders should take regular time to sit, have coffee, and listen and call people into this life of allowing Jesus to reign in our lives and the life of our church, and to discern the marvelous things He is doing in and around us that we can participate in. Each time someone gets this, it joins the church body into a more cohesive social unit that God can reign in and over to do His miraculous work of His Kingdom. Get together with any people hanging out with the church and ask nurturing questions: Where is God working in your life? How are you submitting to the King and seeing His work flourish in and among your life?
2. Be cautious about people who leave saying “I didn’t get this particular need met.” When someone tells me this I got to be cautious. I think we need to listen. We need to take note of the issues we’re not dealing with that prompted this person to leave. But pastors can get so caught up in taking care of people’s needs, building programs that appeal to people’s needs (so they won’t leave) that take care of what people think they need or their children need, and in the end we leave little space for God to work in power among us for His Kingdom. We end up just maintaining our Americanized consumer lives. (BTW most of the people leaving our church were not in this category).
When we call people into the Kingdom life, the “so much more” beyond immediate self focused need, some people will leave. But as long as we’ve done the job of humbly pastorally directing people into the life in His reign, then I’ve got to be all right with that.
3. No one should leave out of anger-conflict . I urge pastors not to quickly dismiss the person who isn’t getting it or who balks at the most basic moves of the Kingdom. Like, at our body, we consider the process of reconciling conflict as ground zero of where the Kingdom breaks in. Jesus says “wherever two or more are gathered” and reach agreement “there am I in the midst.” Whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven, loosed on earth, loosed in heaven.” The Kingdom breaks in, demons are defeated, people are actually healed in the process.
Yet, sadly, most people will resist. We are all trained to think conflict is about defending or winning not about the Kingdom breaking in. Pastors must model subordination to the one who is in question, pastors must lead by humility, ask questions and listen, submit first to what is being aimed at the pastor, assure and stoke imagination for what God wants to do in each of us and into the world through these times of discernment.
4. Use people’s neediness to direct them into the Kingdom. Calling people into the Kingdom means using people’s desires for immediate solutions to their problems to call them into God’s Kingdom. We must help people see that any want or need will never ultimately be fulfilled (only temporarily satiated) by a certain program or approach to church. For those who seek ready made fellowship, we need to nurture the incredible community that happens when just a few of us gather in submission to Christ to look for His Kingdom work, and pray and enter in (think Acts 2). For those who seek a better job or more job satisfaction, we need to nurture the incredible job satisfaction that comes from seeing one’s job as the arena for God to work in us to transform the world in Christ. For those seeking a better children’s ministry to keep their children/teenagers happy or content, we need to nurture a community that does not entertain children, but trains them, into a way of being in the world where Jesus is Lord (not them or their immediate desires). Once they experience this incredibly full and peaceful world, any thing else will seem shallow and this will mean a lot in the college years to come.
Sadly of course, there will be those who don’t see things in this way. They might leave an d we should bless them with peace. This is fine. This is God’s work. I’m the gardener, He’s the one who makes things grow.
I think each time we spend time with someone entering or leaving the church body we are building the Kingdom. I think this should be a regular rhythm of church planters but also every pastor. I think you do this for five, six, ten years… little outposts for the Kingdom are built with explosive potential for God’s power to be revealed. Turnover is to be expected, but it should not be dismissed. It’s the opportunity to be used to build His Kingdom. What other experiences do you have with turnover as the means for God to build His Kingdom?
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P.S. For those looking for the second post on “Being Missional Among the GBLT peoples,” I hope to have it up by Friday. The conversation has been thick on that post and I’ve been swamped …
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Hey Dave,
Great post.
Our experience of turnover (people leaving, mostly) led to some fruitful discussions with those who remained about the nature of the church and discipleship. It was a great opportunity to address the consumerism that we had been guitly of.
Now its easy to address consumerism when it is the reason that people are leaving, but what if its the reason they are coming? Should we send people back to their old church if we sense that they have unfinished business there, or should we be more realistic?
Great post Professor. Lots of room for thought on this. My experiences with turnover are along the opposite lines. My home church has been on a remarkable growth pattern (almost tripled in size over my 13 years there – member only) but some thinking has been going on (I think it has been spurred on by the revelations from Willow in the Reveal study). The idea has been to move to a more “missional” approach – which has raised some concerns on my part as to whether it is truly missional hence the quotes. It seems the move is to convert the current small groups into missional teams. The nurturing will be an “air attack” (is that a new catch phrase?) or preaching from the pulpit, and having the small groups put the teaching into practice. Your post suggests a reversed approach – rather than forming a “family” where all feel welcomed and a part of the group dynamic thus forestalling turnover, nurturing into the Kingdom builds a Gospel directed community. I ramble, but thanks for the insights.
Some of the more important conversations I have had with people in their early stages of “checking out the church” were about their prospective role in our particular local body. I would talk with them about our unique calling as a church and what it might look like for them to be part of it.
These conversations would include a gracious but unapologetic explanation that we would love to have them as part of our community if God was calling them into it. But I would also clearly explain that they needed to be part of the church into which God was calling them. I would pray with them for the Spirit’s leading and ask for clarity based not on personal desires and wants but upon God’s purposes for them and for our church (and/or whichever other church was His intent for them).
I just finished reading “Inhabiting the Church” by Stock, Otto and Wilson-Hartgrove. In it they address the Benedictine vows and their value for our own communities (particularly new monastic expressions, but I found much value for the Church at large.)
One vow discussed was that of Stability (which is the topic of Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove’s new book to be released in May). This concept is one that is completely foreign to most of us, but addresses a toxic value of our culture. The authors of “Inhabiting” claim that “once one truly has been grafted into this new family of God, it is inconceivable to think that such ties could merely be given up without much consequence” (89) and because of this, “the Benedictine vow of stability is prophetic in our age of consumerism, restlessness and frenzy” (92).
I recognize that Americans don’t do well with vows… we don’t do well with any restrictions on how we spend our time, money or energy. This is yet another example of life within the church not bearing significant difference from that which takes place under the empire.
Perhaps we should lift up this idea of stability, if not to the level of vow, then perhaps at least to that of a value. It might mean that we don’t take that promotion that will move our family across the country or that we choose not to move into the impressive new subdivision just because we can.
The discovery of community and shared life may reveal that the promotion isn’t needed and the larger house isn’t desirable. It will be that much more painful when people do move on…but perhaps people moving on should be painful and unnatural.
Thank you so much for this Dave! This was something my heart needed today….
Danny
Dave,
As a visitor to LoV on a number of occasions, I really appreciate this post addressing people in “transition”, whether it be coming or going. My husband and I have recently moved into the area, and are trying to discern just how to navigate finding a community, without “shopping” for churches. We abhor church hopping every Sunday, not being able to truly get to know and understand the true parts of community we are searching for. It leads to the practical question–With no ties to a new place, how does one organically find a church home?
We are very drawn LoV and its mission, but it’s definitely hard for a completely new person to come in to. The strong bond of solid relationships is evident.
Dave, I really appreciate this post, particularly as someone who is in a period of discernment regarding leaving one local body and entering another.
“People are going to move – sometimes for wrong reasons, sometimes for good ones. We should seek them out, discern the will of God with them and bless them in their sending.”
I have longed for this “blessing in the sending” as I have watched people move on from my local church, sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for wrong. Instead, I have witnessed silence and uncomfortable murmurs. What could be a recognition of the way God shapes and builds His kingdom becomes an occasion for self-justification and preservation of “our way” of doing church. Though it’s painful when God calls people out our community, we need to remember that it is about His mission in the world and not our comfort. It is also a good opportunity to refocus on the work He is doing in our midst and join Him in it.
Thanks all for these marvelous contribtions to the topic … a few quick words for Susan and others trying to find/become situated in a Missional community. It has become clearer to me that LoV is a harder place to “break into” … the Sunday gathering is simply not viewed as a place to attract strangers … it’s spiritual formation into Christ, His Life and Mission … so sadly,we’re not very good at getting visitors integrated … I think we’re struggling to find our way through this … In the mean time Susan … and any others finding themselves in Susan’s situation, I urge you talk to the pastors (at LoV Matt Tebbe knows the most about this) and see if there are any Missional gatherings meeting in their homes near by you geographically (we call these “missional orders” at LoV). This is where visitors/strangers/outsiders meet people at LoV the best. Now if there is not a gathering nearby …then I urge you to find someone in our gathering (from Matt maybe) who lives nearest you. Invite them over for a meal … share what’s going on in your lives … and pray for each other and the neighborhood… ask what’s going on that God has you together living in this place … Does sound daunting … start slowly … don’t be overly intrusive … just practice a hospitable dispoistion and be frank about your serahc for Life in the Kingdom … Matt can coach u. The first steps take faith … but boy .. I believe a rich life lies ahead as you then invite others to join you in seeking Life together in the power of Christ’s Lordship over us.
This was fast and short. I’m sure there are many issues to discern … but hopefully this helps…
Blessings!!
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