God bless you,
Pastor Fanuel and Petina

I must say I prefer smaller church populations rather than bigger ones, because it enables me to interact with others on a more personal level. I can actually get to know them. I find bigger churches have to put on a “show” every week, because they are just to big to have actual interaction. I’m not saying that the “show” is bad. I find it good most of the time being able to worship God with so many others, but there’s definitely a disconnect, even when you become involved.

johnR – I understand and agree with your frustration regarding “doing” church and “being” church. Although I tend to disagree with your feelings about quitting talking about it. I think there is still a need for people to talk about it. If no one talked about it, many (me included) would most likely still feel alone, frustrated, and angry with “church”. There are still many people out there discovering and also trying to figure out what it all means. Ending the conversation would only hurt and possibly hinder “being” the church.

Just some of my thoughts.

I hear you. But we can’t really believe that preaching changes lives, can we? I think we all believe the Spirit is what/who changes lives. And the Spirit moves in community. I love what you said, ” it’s encountering the Living Word as a community, announcing who God is, hearing the identity God gives us, and reorienting our whole selves toward the Kingdom.”, but that sounds more like a community teaching/sharing together than what the evangelical church has become. It sounds like something we could do “as we are going” so to speak. (as far as the “guilt” thing…I think that is exactly what much preaching has become, unfortunately).

In a post-Christendom world, I think preaching must come behind the kingdom as it comes. The Christendom form of preaching “about it coming” will not work anymore.

I live in an area of approximately 60,000 people and I just counted over 3 pages of Christian churches and 33 Protestant denominations in the Yellow Pages. I don’t think we need any more church buildings. When did a church become a building not “two or more gathered in His name”? Christians don’t need any more church buildsings “planted”; we need to quit going to church and start BEING the Church! Be the Church at the sub shop, Be the Church at the coffee shop, Be the Church at the gas station, Be the Church at the Applebee’s, and even Be the Church of Jesus Christ at the local tavern!
Forgive me for my forwardness, but quit talking about and analyzing being the Church, and start BEING IT!

As for your second question, what does apostleship have to do with huge numbers? And what makes 1000 member church not reproducible is that they are heavily dependent upon Christendom Christians or Christendom influenced dechurched. The assumption I was working on was that there are less and less of these people around (as the ARIS statistics reveal). We then should not be surprised if this means of starting churches is not reproducible. THIS DOES NOT DISCOUNT THE GOOD WORK OF REDEEMER OF MARS HILL, it just suggests we should be careful in trying to replicate it in post Christendom contexts. Does that clarify I hope?

And I think the personality issue is overblown because how do you separate personality cult from apostolic leadership without discernment. And is it any more or less reproducible to develop 1 personality out of 10,000 that could lead ten thousand than to develop 100 personalities to lead 100 each. What happens when some of those 100 leaders happen to have the ‘personality’ lead 1000 or more?

Can you give some more insights on neo-anabaptist reproducibility and/or growth in regards to church planting?

Fitch–Great questions. For #1, I’d say in order to be megachurches they will have to be both attractional and personality driven. And they will depend largely on Christendom’s remaining strength. However–I might be able to talk myself out of that regarding post-christendom. I’m sure there are many non-churched people who have been introduced to the gospel & Christian community through large urban churches. If the smaller communities within the megachurch adopt a missional lifestyle and inhabit their neighborhoods, I could imagine large churches being sustainable in a post-christendom society.

Tim Baily, you got me thinking with your gospel-in-action prior to preaching idea. Kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem. But I’d have to throw my lot with the idea that preaching changes lives which go into action and transform communities. Even in the absence of people living the gospel, preaching is much more than “why we should.” (If it is “why we should,” then it would be a pretty guilt inducing sermon series!) Rather, it’s encountering the Living Word as a community, announcing who God is, hearing the identity God gives us, and reorienting our whole selves toward the Kingdom. Living the gospel, in my mind, doesn’t typically happen prior to that kind of formation, but out of that kind of formation.