There is a standard storyline in American evangelical church that goes like this: Young man is a natural leader (these leaders are always male – in particular “alpha male”). Young man gets saved and has powerful conversion experience. Young man has a “vision” to start a church to change the world. Young man in mesmerizing fashion begins to challenge his friends and acquaintances into coming along with him to plant this church “wherever God might call” (read “launch team” here). Young man visits some prime spots and says “we looked around this place and found no vibrant alive church here” (this irritates all the other small churches to no end). Young man puts out a video and raises money. They purchase a state of the art sound/video system. Young man is attractive, a weight lifter and therefore attracts all the younger people from the launch team’s various churches to come to this new one. Then the launch team does something positively out of the ordinary/ even outrageous that draws attention to the church launch. Media takes notice. Enough people disgruntled/disengaged from other churches show up. A crowd (especially a young crowd) draws a crowd (most people don’t go to a church for the service – they are seeking connection). A mega church is born. Young man is lifted up as the exemplar holy man leader. People all talk about him with reverence (even though few people actually know him). From here the staff works tirelessly producing programing to keep the activity going. The pastor has to produce enough catchy sermon series (which is why he often hires marketing type people on his staff) to keep the illusion ongoing that something positive is happening in people’s lives. A slick video production crew has to find the best stories (out of thousands of people we only need one) and produce it so that the hundreds of people gathering can vicariously participate (hyper-reality is the best way to experience Christianity without having to change your life). Often this young man will build staffs of other people around him who idolize him. Dissent is rarely encouraged. Mantras are generated that create an “ideological” consensus, a buzz: “One Church, One Mission, One Goal” or something like that.
From here the aura of our mythic hero is enhanced through books, websites, DVD’s, going on speaking tours. And somewhere along the line, we produce this story and make it so appealing that every American young seminarian thinks he has to be one of America’s top 100 fastest growing churches, or he is a failure.
If you are a church planter I’d like to offer 5 reasons not to do this.
1.) This way of “church” too easily becomes about the mythic hero and not about who Jesus is and what God is doing in and through the work of Jesus Christ in the world for the salvation of the world (and so when he leaves, dies, or has a moral failure – the church collapses – proving it was not really a viable church in the first place)
2.) The mythic hero becomes elevated upon a pedestal. His life now too easily becomes an image to be managed as opposed to a real life lived among a people. This will make the mythic hero’s life into a living hell (eventually).
3.) This route of church planting has been tried. There are many mega churches around as a result. Many of these mythic heroes are in their fifties now. This approach worked well in the 70’s and 80’s as the country was full of disenchanted Catholics, Lutherans, and Bible church boomers. It makes little to no sense as the “market” for disenchanted pre-churched people is shrinking in the North East, North West, Other Urban Centers and Canada. It still works however in the southern United States and to some degree in Alberta Canada. So, if you choose to go this way, know your chances of success are shrinking. And you are now being put into the position of “competing for that market.” In my mind, there is nothing worse than being caught up in competition with other churches for attenders. It’s disingenuous and bad (very bad) for your character.
4.) The mythic hero will become a workaholic. His whole identity will become the success of this “enterprise.” His life and ministry will not incorporate everyday relationships as part of a normal healthy life (because of reason no. 2). As a result, he will become a candidate for massive burnout, abusive behavior and/or moral failure before he is fifty.
5.) Because the mythic hero has no relationships (because people everywhere call him “pastor” with the aura of the man lifted up on pedestal), the mythic hero must suppress any doubts he has about life, ministry, God or even himself. He has no relationships to work out everyday life, stress, and sin. Because of this coccon, the mythic hero becomes incapable of receiving criticism apart from a well scripted defense and deflection. This is also is a recipe for a nervous breakdown.
Now don’t get me wrong. There are many sincere believers and Kingdom-seeking “young men” who are involved in church-plants that look like this. I just think we need to be careful – real careful. There are plenty of church planter videos out there (just google for them) that script this mythology. They need to be chastened. It is very tempting to look at these Hollywood crafted videos and get sucked in. I say “don’t do it.” Look to the simple ways God works to change lives and to know this: the revolution, the real revolution, the revolution that will move beyond a cultural evangelicalism, the revolution of the Spirit, where lives, towns and villages are changed, this revolution will not be televised. It will happen low, on the ground, beneath the lights, in the daily cultivation of life in the Kingdom. And occasionally, a mega church might result (as something we never could have predicted 
).
If anyone has any other reasons not to go this route (no cynicism please) please comment eh? Has anyone seen these examples of video-ography? Your thoughts?
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I’m not sure what prompted this post but it seems to lack the well-thought out posts that characterize your blog. You have erected a straw man here with little substance and then predictably tear it down.
I wonder what it would be if you re-wrote it with the intention of trying to expose hidden motivations or initiate reflective thought. This…it’s just a “I’m not *that* guy” kind of post.
Bob,
To your question “What prompted this?”
Answer: Seeing several videos in the last week, produced in the last year, that follow this script and believing this is a myth in many ways. Then seeing many seminarians grabbed by it. So for me this is real. I’ve been seeing these videos steadily for the last year (due to people sending them my way). But of course, we must test all things by the Spirit, including this post.
I’m willing to hear from others as well! Does this post mis-represent the reality of it all? Do I need to take down this post. Or does this provide a space for some reflection on the motivation behind church-planting and the dangers of this particular mode?
Thanks
DF
I guess it was that context that (for me) was missing. And now, while the existence of the videos themselves doesn’t surprise me–the fact that seminarians are unable to see through them…that would be a concern.
This post might exagerate a little, but not much. I too have seen this same thing played out over and over. In our somewhat affluent and attractive village alone we have at least three new church plants all with the intention of filling the “void” the other churches apparently have missed. There is no interaction with existing church bodies, no discussions, no introductions. There is simply the attitude that we’re here to do it better than the rest of you.
Yeah, it frustrates me.
Yep,,,it has some realism to it. Anyone that does not see this, has been looking away on purpose.
Now, that being said…..we do cultural revelant things but only with the spiritual culture of Jesus.
Anything that is over board to drag people into church always has its hidden pit falls.
Good shot off the hip post….it does make us think.
Thanks, David, for this. In many years of watching and working with church start-ups among immigrant groups (mostly South Asian, Korean and Hispanic), I have seen the same focus on the mythic male lead pastor, the attractional experience of “worship,” and, if they lack the resources for Hollywood/Bollywood production values, a beginning with YouTube.
Further, since respectful titles are required in Asian cultures, the pastor’s actual name is seldom used, replaced forever with the title. One of the ironies in the communities of which I speak is that the respected, male leader must be near 40 to be respected. If we were to consider his age and the reality that younger members of the community consider English their heart language, these congregations have a very difficult time holding on to their youth after they leave high school.
Thank you for this David. While I have to check myself for agreeing too hastily because I too have a sense of “I’m not that guy,” I think you have touched on an important point that should increasingly become a part of the church planting dialogue.
There is one particular frustration that grips me. As a hopeful church planter myself, I have been troubled by seeing how many church planting networks in their interview (read “screening”) process, admit outright that they will be evaluating the candidates’ personality types. Where in Scripture do we find that the role of church planter or pastor (or any of the other giftings and roles) need to have a certain type of personality rather than godly character, the ability to discern and teach sound doctrine, and a strong connection with other believers?
Samuel, while instances and intents may vary, the purpose of a personality assessment is usually not merely to rule out certain “types”. Some people do get ruled out, but not simply because of their basic personality. A personality profile is part of a variety of assessments done to get do know the candidate to help affirm a call and to understand a candidates strengths and weaknesses. This helps the agencies and denominations know how to support planters and how to help them build a good team.
This is a caricature of church planting with a lot of truth, and it’s the story of how several megachurches came to be. But I’m personally thankful it’s not how I was taught to plant churches in seminary.
Church plants I’ve been involved with and/or supported have believed strongly in and practiced humble leadership delegation and regeneration. They wholly rejected the attraction-based method for growth, and insisted on a much, much simpler and frugal approach (e.g. no “state-of-the-art” equipment), all the while giving time, money and energy to helping the poor in their community. Some church plant leaders I know have also insisted on little-to-no compensation, requiring themselves and the other leaders to have local jobs, which maintain the “circle of influence” and further intimate them with the town they’re trying to reach.
One clarification, though. Church planters can’t always be rebuked for belittling other churches in the area. I’ve been to regions that are truly unreached, and it’s either because the area is literally church-less or the local churches are not being remotely culture-impacting (much better word than “vibrant” and “alive”). Some churches just aren’t trying.
Perhaps a good post would be a compare/contrast approach between the seemingly failed and passe form of church planting with the more biblical and practical form. I’m a firm believer in church planting, but this post’s story is not my favorite ending to the life of a church plant.
I can’t speak for David, but I suspect the reference to other churches in the area was not to suggest that church planters ignore good works in smaller churches (though I’ve experienced that in our community a great deal). Rather, I think the point he was making was that public statements about the general lack of Christian presence (or the quality of it)- regardless of how true it might be- is ungracious to fellow Christians. Just a thought.
Ouch.
Great post! I’ve always struggled with the amount of church planting that is going on. In college, I was a part time youth pastor of a small church in the suburbs of Kansas City, and attended a meeting of all the Southern Baptist pastors in the north Kansas City; where there were nearly 100 pastors. All they talked about was church planting and all I could think was, “There are 100 pastors in north KC in the SBC alone, and they think we need to plant more churches?” We didn’t need more churches, we needed people in these churches to come alive. But instead, we give up on those people and start new somewhere else.
I am reminded of Jesus’ parable about the wheat and the weeds. Our churches are a struggle so instead of tending them for the harvest despite the weeds, we just skip it and go plant somewhere else.
Regan,
I have to say that I disagree with your critique on the need for church planting. Just about 40% of Americans claim (emphasis on “claim”) to attend a religious service regularly (this includes non-Christian attendance as well). Even giving the benefit of the doubt to those claims, we can guess that about one-third of Americans attend a Christian church regularly (i.e. belong to a church). Unless we have decided that megachurches are the proper way to do church, there is no way that we could hope to reach that other 66% of Americans with the Gospel and plug them into churches with our current number of churches. Church plants are highly effective at evangelizing non-believers and are not geared toward “sheep-stealing,” which means that just about every region of the United States could use more church plants to help reach the ripening harvest.
Hitting ‘like’ button.
My experience has been that pastors/church planters regardless of the size or style of church tend to be isolated relationally. Whether that is intentional or not could depend upon the situation. But my guess is that to some degree the isolation Dave is mentioning just comes with the territory of being a pastor. Probably Jethro was the closest thing Moses had to being a peer/someone he could share his burdens with. And he led the biggest mega church around.
I don’t think our end goal should be to get as many documented official church members as possible, but rather our beginning and end goal should always be to expose people to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Our goal should be to give people a fair chance to except or deny Jesus Christ, after being explained to who he is and what he has done. This does not have to happen in a Church, nor does the acceptance of Christ have to result in lifelong Chruch attendence and membership in order for us to mark that conversion as a success. I would like to see the statistics on how many people know who Christ is and what he has done. How many have been exposed to the gospel and had a chance to accept or deny him. That is the goal, to share the Truth. If conversion happens, thats wonderful, and it should be sought after. But don’t assume that conversion isn’t happening just because people aren’t going to church. There are many who choose to continue their education without the help of an official “pastor” and interact with other Christians outside of the traditional model of Church. I believe a new model of church, in a paperless way, is shaping America. Its not a bad thing. Education needs to taught outside the brick and morder system of a classroom that traditional church has depened upon. Our measures of success and information sharing must change. The Gospel needs to be shared on a ground level, meeting people where they are at, and not feeling like we have failed because not everyone wants to be a documented tither to an institution. I was raised in church, but I didn’t find Jesus in Church, I learned more about him from talking to friends than I ever did in a pulpit. I didn’t become a Christian at the alter, nor did I remain a church goer for long after recieving Christ as my savior. Is this some sort of failer? No. Did I become some sort of backslider? No. My faith has only grown outside the walls of church, and I feel it is now more important to bring Christ to those outside of Church, than to bring them inside.
Brittany
I wish I would have said that…
Very well said…
“This does not have to happen in a Church, nor does the acceptance of Christ have to result in lifelong Chruch attendence and membership in order for us to mark that conversion as a success.”
Me too. Met Jesus outside of “The Religious System” But…
NOT knowing any better at the time jumped into “The System”
with all the heavy weights placed on our shoulders…
Submission to God Ordained Authority. Tithes and offerings.
Heirarchy. And other “Traditions of men” that nullify
“The Word of God.” Mark 7:13.
Thank you Jesus for setting me free from “The System.”
When you believe the lie you start to die…
Jer 50:6
“My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
**their shepherds** have caused them to *go astray,*
1 Pet 2:25
For ye were as *sheep going astray;* BUT…
are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
I’m Blest…
I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul…
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Why do you believe
Submission to God Ordained Authority. Tithes and offerings.
Heirarchy.
Is tradition of men?
Tithes and offerings in the new testament–
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others
Submission to God Ordained Authority and Heirarchy.
Romans 13
Hebrews 13
1 Peter 5
“I was raised in church, but I didn’t find Jesus in Church, I learned more about him from talking to friends…”
Wrong! If you found Jesus at all, that WAS church. You cannot separate Christ from his church. Every generation has its “rebels” who think they will be the first to invent “non-institutional Christianity,” but it never happens. The moment they have any margin of success, leaders begin to systematize it. That’s just how society runs. However the Christian faith expresses itself, which it always will, IS the institution. Institutionalism isn’t the problem; imperfect expressions of faith are. And our generation will not be the first one to get it right, sorry. But we can learn from the past and work towards a better church for the future. We can leave our children a tradition that roots them in the gospel and saves them from having to re-invent the wheel.
Good post. Spot on in your analysis, even if it is a bit over the top. I’m in Charlotte and see this playing out with a few young, hip pastors leading large mega-flicks.
What I don’t understand is when & where did a church planter – even a really successful one leading thousands – where did they get the idea they are qualified to dispell leadership advice? I ask that question as humbly as I can, as I just don’t get how some 29 year old who has never held a re job or run a company is qualified to give business & leadership advice. Yes, I get that they run an organization, manage money, fundraiser, etc. but their staff usually handles that. But seriously, someone help me understand how they are qualified, as I think it negatively impacts the bigger message of the gospel when they lecture about time management, goal setting, etc etc.
Cocoon is a key word (point 5) that says it all.
Other reasons not to: Judgement by the one who sees everthing and every thought.
When you get your reward now because people are following and dependent upon you, not Jesus, you get no reward later, in fact Jesus may say “depart from me I never new you”. Maybe that’s a little too prophetic for those who think everything should be said positively, even though this is a positive rebuke.
“There are many sincere believers and Kingdom-seeking “young men” who are involved in church-plants that look like this.”
How can they look like this and be considered “kingdom-seeking”. They compltely deceived flesh seekers. All of this completely repudiates kingdom instructions, specially the parts about the quality of their relationships. Using Bible words and traditionally accepted manners doesn’t make one kingdom any more than it makes Mormons kingdom people.
[...] Reclaiming the Mission » Church Planter as Mythic Hero: 5 Reasons Not To Go This Route. [...]
Dave,
I miss hearing your rants in class. This one would have been entertaining
I’ve seen this pattern in Chicago during the past few years. But none of those plants have been towards the goal of
“a megachurch is born.” From my observation and experience this is how most everyone does a church plant.
It appears that diversity (class, background, economics, race, spiritual gifts, theological lens) needs to be a priority from the beginning.
The responsibility falls on the “alpha-male” and the “plant team.” If the church is birthed in homogeneity than it seems to have a higher possibility of inbreeding a culture of conformity and comfort.
Does that culture of homogeneity/conformity/comfort always lead to those 5 dangers you listed? Not sure, but perhaps.
adding to your #1 reason, i recall all the time, energy, giving resources (financial & other ‘favors’) and mobilizing manpower needed to perpetuate BOTH the hero myth (and all his accessories: tours, dvd’s, etc) and the church grow machine. The church body becomes perhaps 80% oriented toward that instead of building into each other, equipping, integrating into the community, etc.
adding to #2: all the hot air that’s shuffled around (talk, talk, leadership-talks-about-talking-the-talk) creates a stuffy precursor to hell. Oh, and have you seen the pedestals in the Elephant Room event?
btw, i don’t see your description as over the top, rather I take it as a fair, quite detailed, outline of a story type, as one would map out and pitch a ‘boy meets girl’, ‘rags to riches’, etc., story. In my experience, almost every line in your ‘script’ was desired, if not realized. For example, i remember lengthy meetings agonizing over the Mantra for the Fall programs… these things were done sincerely and, yes, attempting to seek Kingdom ends, but sadly without much critical reflection.
Just wondering…
Can’t seem to find “church planting” in the Bible.
Did Jesus ask any of “His Disciples” to *plant a church?*
Did Jesus give any instruction on – How to *plant a church?*
Did Paul give any instruction on – How to *plant a church?*
Did any “Disciples of Christ” actually *plant a church?*
Is it – Church Planting? Or is it – Denomination Planting?
Or is it – Corporation Planting?
Seems man goes to a Gov’t organization, IRS, and asks for permission
to be called “church” by filling out a form – 501 (c) 3.
When approved, they become a – Gov’t approved, Gov’t inspected,
501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporation.
Does that sounf like “the Church of God” in the Bible?
Did Jesus shed His Blood for a building, an organization,
an institution, a business, a corporation? AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
NO – He Purchased His Church with His Blood – you and me…
His Ekklesia… His called out one’s…
When you hear words that are not in the Bible?
don’t you wonder why we use them?
and where they came from?
Isn’t it challenge enough understanding?
the truth of the words that are written?
How much harder word’s and sayings that we make up?
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition…
Mark 7:13 KJV
Hmmm? A simple word, “church.” Today…
What do most people understand the word “church” to mean?
Building with a steeple on it?
Is that in the Bible?
Pastor – in a pulpit – preaching – to people – in pews?
Is that in the Bible?
That’s what the world thinks, the unbeliever, isn’t it?
Isn’t that what the so called “local church plants”
has accomplished with four buildings on
four corners in a lot of “local towns?”
Haven’t we deceived the people we’re supposed to be reaching out to?
Does anyone know what the word “church” means?
Jesus – He is the head of the body, “The Church.”
I can’t seem to find internet in the bible, so should you be on it.
Hopefully you can see to the verbage of
“To the Church In” as churches, which were not there *planted* my the apostles and their followers
1 Corinthians 1:2
2 Corinthians 1:1
Gal 1:2
Philippians 1:1– reference to church structure
1 Thessalonians 1:1
2 Thessalonians 1:1
Pastor – in a pulpit – preaching – to people – in pews?
Is that in the Bible?
Yes, alluded to structure, role of elders, and where the woman sat in relation to the men in
Acts and 1 Corinthians
Mike – Appreciate the response.
Always enjoy looking up scripture.
Especially those pointing to the ekklesia, the called out one’s.
Strongs Concordance has ekklesia coming from two words.
Ek – meaning out of. Kaleo – meaning to call.
A calling out, assembly and congregation.
There are those today who believe ekklesia means, and refers
to – “called out one’s.”
For me… Ekklesia in the Bible is always referring to people…
Never an organization, a denomination, a Corporation.
Jesus, the head of the body, (the ekklesia, the called out one’s)
The Church.
I notice in the first verse you gave, 1 Cor 1:2, Paul goes from “the church” (Most today think Sun Morn Meeting in a building) – to *them that are sanctified* (Multple people – them) – to “called to be saints.” (more multiple people- saints).
1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church (Ekklesia, called out one’s) of God which is at Corinth, to **them that are sanctified** in Christ Jesus, **called to be saints,* …
Seems “church” (ekklesia) refers to *them that are sanctified*
and those *called to be saints,*
For me… this verse is not necessarily speaking about one group, one location or one assembly of believers. Then, believers would meet in homes, and this could be referring to all those who are called out of “The Religious System” of the day into a *Relationship with Jesus* who lived in Corinth. Whether one location or many.
How does someone *plant* – *them that are sanctified?*
And *plant* those – *called to be saints?*
Didn’t Jesus say – “I will build MY church.”
NO – Today people *Plant Corporations” NOT Ekklsia of God.
NOT – Called out one’s of God – NOT – the Chruch of God.
The body of Christ – the Church.
I’ve been involved in a so-called church plant.
All we did was make “Disciples after ourselves.”
And “Disciples after our movement.”
We did NOT make “Disciples of Christ.”
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Oh my…
You’ve nailed a lot of truth with these five points. One area where I might differ with you is on the term “myth.” I’d use the word “fiction” instead. I say this because the church planter you’re describing is falling for an unreality, in other words, a fiction. A myth in contrast is more or less a distillation of some deep truth, told as story or narrative, but at its core real.
From this perspective we can talk about the myth of Christ and mean the underlying truth of his life, his death, his resurrection, and his kingship of all in all, and yet be telling the absolute truth. The fiction comes into being when the young church planter becomes the idol and the reason for the church, instead of the risen Lord. At that point he becomes no more, and no less, than a Hollywood celebrity, with all the gravitas that implies. And sure, there will be many people who will follow him and fawn over him, and imitate him for that matter. But the spiritual quest has become a marketing campaign, and the whole thing stinks of hypocrisy and defeat. And the house built on sand is swept away, sooner or later, by the waves and the storm.
I think it’s worth remembering WWJD, another marketing campaign from a few years ago. What would Jesus do? I suspect he’d be under the radar, low-key, unpublicized, going about daily helping and pointing seeking people toward that kingdom that can live within them as it’s built.
Couple of thoughts, but esp a great YOUTUBE video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isGrCmCFFmY
And a link..no church planting in the New Testament
http://nextreformation.com/?p=3918
keep on shaking the tree Dave!
FWIW, I may be too esoteric using the definition of “myth” that I did. In common usage, I guess, the fine distinction between a myth as a fairytale, and a myth as a shorthand for a cultural truth, is not often made, and the fairytale is the sense in which most people understand it.
Oh, well…
Dig it. I am amazed and bewildered that my denomination still seems to see this as the way to plant churches.
Btw, I think I’ve decided “The revolution will not be televised” is going to be my first tattoo. Thanks for turning me on to that phrase, DF.
Great post Dave. I think we Americans are attracted to celebrities, and we have a certain impulse to want to emulate those who are deemed most successful by the establishment.
I think we need to celebrate our highly gifted, entrepreneurial leaders, but they need to be discipled before going into that kind of venture. Having said that, we need to celebrate our ordinary heroes, people who are gifted apostolically, prophetically and evangelistically, who engage in church planting and are moving forward in their calling. We need to celebrate the ordinary so that every person, regardless of the caliber of their gifting, is affirmed. There are more ordinary apostolic folks out there than exceptional apostolic folks, and I say it is the ordinary apostolic folks who will carry the revolution forward. If we depend on high caliber folks, then the revolution will get bottle necked in their shadow. Let the high caliber folks inspire, cast vision, and train, but let the ordinary folks receive our greatest affirmation. To me, this will lead to the activation of the greatest number of revolutionaries in the long run.
Sadly I have seen this play out at my last church. I believe that it is a structural problem. The structure/system will produce a certain outcome. I have come back to a simple truth that Paul uttered, “I determined to know nothing else among you except Jesus and him crucified.” I desired at one time to plant a church, did my research on networks, read the books, etc. One disturbing finding is the (subtle) belief that WE can produce converts. Another is the over-arching emphasis on leadership. The third and most damning finding is that Jesus is looked upon as a cog in the wheel as opposed to being the focal point. Thank you for the article!
I now feel much better about trying to start a church as a skinny introvert on the wrong side of 40 who hasn’t had a “powerful conversion experience.”
David – line 8ish (read “launch team” here) link is broken. Would like to check that out. Will you let me know when it’s up? Great post.
Mike
You ask…
“Why do I believe… Tithes and offerings. Is tradition of men?
In “The Abusive Religious System” I was raised up in we were taught if we didn’t give 10% of our income, money, to this church, now the storehouse referred to in Malichi 3:10, we were robbing God and under a curse from God.
And I believed them.
They used fear, guilt, and shame to get folks to put money in the plate.
I now know this as – control, manipulation and “Spiritual Abuse.”
Don’t know if you ever did your own study on the “Tithe.”
It makes an interesting study. Really.
Just look up every verse that has “Tithe” or any part thereof, in it.
And ask Jesus the “Truth” of these verses for you.
When I checked, I found NO?ONE ever tithed silver, gold, or money.
It was always food – to be consumed – eaten – or sacrificed to God.
When was the last time you saw a Lincoln, $5, or a Grant $50,
eaten? – burnt up? – sacrificed to God?
Found as many as four different times, ways, “Tithe“ is used.
One was even for – you and your household to eat. Deut 14:22:26
“that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.”
Hmmm? I never heard that one preached from the pulpit.
Some, like youself, say tithing is still for us today because Jesus told the Pharisees to continue tithing. If that’s true, isn’t the tithe still the Pharisees tithe, mint, anise, and cummin, food and NOT?MONEY? Isn’t it still for you and your household to eat, for orphans, widows, strangers and the Levites?
NOT for *Today’s* hired Professional Pastors to live off of… And…
NOT for 501(c)3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporations.
Was wondering…
Since the Levitcal priesthood was changed, also a change of the law – according to Heb 7:11-12. “Where” do you – as a Scribe or a Pharisee – give your “Tithe” today? – And what do you “Give a tenth of” as your “Tithe?”
And can you show that to me in the scriptures.
Be Blessed in your search for truth… Jesus…
For any who think Fitch’s description is “OVER THE TOP”, check this out:
Someone in the comments said they were in Charlotte …and lo & behold, here is a terrific example of the myth played out in reality: http://www.elevationchurch.org/video/documentary
Oh Boy ….
Hey LEN! —thanks for your link to your post where you quote your pal Leslie Newbigin in The Open Secret:
“My own experience as a missionary has been that the significant advances of the church have not been the result of our own decision about the mobilizing and allocating of ‘”resources.” This kind of language, appropriate for a military campaign or a commercial enterprise, is not appropriate here. The significant advances in my experience have come through happenings of which the story of Peter and Cornelius is a paradigm, in ways of which we have no advance knowledge. God opens the heart of a man or a woman in the gospel. The messenger (the “angel” of Acts 10:3) may be a stranger, a preacher, a piece of Scripture, a dream, an answered prayer, or a deep experience of joy or sorrow, of danger or deliverance. It was not part of any missionary “strategy” devised by the church. It was the free and sovereign deed of God, who goes before his church. (64)”
Maybe guys like Steven Furtick is the one man to which Newbigin refers. I mean, doesn’t this quote feed the myth?? In my experience, Elder leadership have used the idea that “God will raise up one, perhaps unlikely man to do great things in our midst.” They use this idea in order to bolster congregational following.
I ask sincerely, b/c I honestly don’t get it all.
Okay, I have to play the other side just a little here.
Did not Paul have a radical testimony that formed the basis for his authority/ministry/mission?
Did not Paul call people to come along with him, just as Jesus called people to come along with him?
Did not Paul intentionally go to unevangelized places, where the gospel had not yet been heard?
(Okay, okay, I know that it’s disingenuous to call any place in America truly unreached. But I think you were a little over-cynical about the motivations of a young man planting in a place with no “vibrant” churches. What if they weren’t going in with a “mega-mindset” and were interested in reaching the untouched in a particular city? Isn’t there enough room for about as many churches as there could be, especially missional ones? Don’t you argue that the majority of churches, big or small, are primarily reaching the pre-churched?)
I’ll show my cards and say that I feel the same way about the second half of your narrative as you do. Young man makes video, buys sound system, etc. I live in Portland, and was pretty frustrated with the arrogant attitude I felt about the Mars Hill satellite going in here, which had an accompanying video. I just think you’ve lumped too much into this narrative and approach it with more cynicism that it actually deserves.
Anyway, what I’m really interested in is the counter-narrative to this one. What do you think that would be?
It strikes me how much of this is a “male” problem. We have failed to recruit and encourage women to be church planters precisely because they can’t fit this mold/script.
yep
Dave,
Hopefully you’re not saying that the use of video and other marketing tools is inherently wrong, are you? Video can be done with honesty and integrity without becoming a manipulative “sales job”.
chuck
[...] Church Planter as Mythic Hero: 5 reasons not to go this route (Dave Fitch) [...]
I’m a 26 yr old white male. I’m in the process of planting my first church. I had no idea that this culture even existed until I began looking for material. Church planting seems to be the latest fad and it has turned into a giant machine. I want to connect with people who are on the same path but it always ends up feeling more business oriented than spiritually oriented. This is probably the most honest blog I’ve read on the subject.
Jason,
If you can get to Chicago at the end of October, you should come to the Missional Learning Commons. It’s a great way to hear from and connect with some of the people in these conversations. I’m sure Dave will be mentioning it in an upcoming post.
I see you’re in NE Ohio … me too. “Planting a church” (or better, part of a “missional order”) in a western suburb of Cleveland. Lemme know if you’d like to connect. I may be going to the thingy in Chi-town.
My story as an example of a like-minded 42 year old:
http://the514i.com//docs/confessions_of_a_coward_clergy.pdf
[...] Reclaiming the Mission » Church Planter as Mythic Hero: 5 Reasons Not To Go This Route [...]
I am a young man called to help plant churches, I would say that the most important thing is to make it about God not the Pastor.
Greg
Much agreement when you say…
“to make it about God not the Pastor.”
BUT – Haven’t you ever wondered why there is NOT one person,
in the Bible, called to be a pastor leading a church?
Hmmm? Todays “Pastor/leader?”
Is this a “Title” or “position” found in the scriptures?
Have you done your own study, research, on pastors?
I mean in the Bible? What does the Bible say about pastors?
Makes an interesting study.
Here’s some questions to ask as you check out pastors.
In the Bible, How many people are… called pastor?
In the Bible, How many people have… the “Title” pastor?
In the Bible, How many people are… ordained as a pastor?
In the Bible, How many people are… hired, or fired, as a pastor?
In the Bible, How many congregations are… “led” by a pastor?
And every pastor I’ve met also has the “title” Reverend. Can’t seem to
find any human with the “Title” Reverend in the Bible either.
…holy and reverend is his name. Ps 111:9 KJV
How do you know you’re called to plant a church? That has a pastor?
If NO one in the Bible was called to plant a church? That has a pastor?
Be blessed in your search for truth… Jesus
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Hi David,
Good post. Perhaps to be more constructive and engage in a conversation, maybe you can point a few examples of how churches are planted that’s diff from the mythic hero model?
I think that will be a great example and encouraging for those of us not fit in that model to see that the Holy Spirit still calls and rallies believers from young to old, in various way to establish His Kingdom through the church.
Thanks!
Cliff, I’ve written on the blog here on the topic of ways to seed missional communities. Try here http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/stop-funding-church-plants-and-start-funding-missionaries-a-plea-to-denominations/
… but there’s plenty in the archives … try hitting church planting category below the post … Thanks
David,
Thanks! I will read that post :O)
Cliff
Agreed. I suspect this was dreamt up by an SEO person
WOW….Not just one comment on how he was convicted on spousal abuse… so i want to be the first to express, “F you and the instruct you rode in on.”if i heard the criminal background of every single person i watched around the tv, followed on the radio or what have you, every single person i see in movies, i might have no time and energy to enjoy myself because i’d be checking out criminal records all damn day and night. i dont defend every fucking thing anyone does no i dont think spousal abuse is cool. but give me a break.I will not give you a break, but Don will…a bone or two…there is absolutely no pity whatsoever for a man who hits over a woman
Please inform me we didn’t really look like that, dress prefer that, and dance like this? I swear I saw a guy who could pass for a sista, another Michael Jackson “don’t stop til you get enough” video clone, and Rhianna’s mother (the chick with your ex hair into her ass dancing in most sort of baby doll lingerie outfit). Oh and I’m sure I saw a Rick James wannabe within too. All of this before 10 in the morning!
Devastated. Some miss a show, wherever I was, for my entire childhood. That’s where we SHONE. Almost every other dance show since only agreed to be trying to keep up.
If everyone in the world decided to go to Church tomorrow, there wouldn’t be enough churches to house everyone. I would tread careful over the attacking of Church planters.
Jarrid
You write…
“If everyone in the world decided to *go to Church* tomorrow”
Hmmm?
In the Bible – Did anyone, ever, *go to church?*
Jarrid
Don’t know if you ever checked or not but…
When I had questions about “the Corrupt Religious System” of today…
I read, and re-read, ALL the scriptures that had the word “church.”
I had a rude awakening…
In the Bible, I found…
NO one ever joined “A Church,”
NO one ever went to “A Church.”
NO one ever “Tithed” to “A Church.”
NO one ever brought their friends to “A Church.”
NO one ever applied for membership in “A Church.”
NO one ever gave silver, gold, or money, to “A Church.”
NO buildings with Steeples and crosses called “A Church.”
NO – Pastors – in Pulpits – Preaching – to People – in Pews.
Had to throw out “all” I thought I knew about “Church.”
Started over, like I’m hearing the word for the first time. Because…
Jesus warned us about “The Traditions of men”
that make “Void” the word of God.
Mark 7:13
KJV – Making the word of God of “none effect” through your tradition…
ASV – Making “void” the word of God by your tradition…
NIV – Thus you “nullify” the word of God by your tradition…
Found out the hard way – Where people go sunday morning is NOT
“The Church of God” in the Bible.
It is a 501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporation.
Should we call a $ Corporation “the Church of God?”
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Most of what goes on sunday morning is NOT in the Bible.
Now… about this word “Church.”
What is popular is not always “Truth.”
What is “Truth” is not always popular.