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	<title>Comments on: A Warning List For Those Who Would Join a Missional Church Gathering</title>
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	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/</link>
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		<title>By: 10 Things To Not Expect From a Missional Church &#187; Live Free &#124; A blog by Jason Salamun</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-15803</link>
		<dc:creator>10 Things To Not Expect From a Missional Church &#187; Live Free &#124; A blog by Jason Salamun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-15803</guid>
		<description>[...] David Fitch shares Ten Things Anyone Who Joins In a Twenty-First Century Missional Church Plant Should Not Expect [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] David Fitch shares Ten Things Anyone Who Joins In a Twenty-First Century Missional Church Plant Should Not Expect [...]</p>
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		<title>By: erin</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12923</link>
		<dc:creator>erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12923</guid>
		<description>great stuff, - puts some of my own feelings in a succinct articulate form.  I don&#039;t know how to do the link back thing - always thought it just happened over the magic of the tubes, but I quote and link copiously, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great stuff, &#8211; puts some of my own feelings in a succinct articulate form.  I don&#8217;t know how to do the link back thing &#8211; always thought it just happened over the magic of the tubes, but I quote and link copiously, thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Link Here to Another World &#171; Thinking Out Loud</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12796</link>
		<dc:creator>Link Here to Another World &#171; Thinking Out Loud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12796</guid>
		<description>[...] David Fitch&#8217;s &#8220;A Warning List for Those Who Would Join a Missional Church Gathering&#8221; at his blog, Reclaiming The Mission, has a lot more substance to be limited to just the missional conversation.   What do you look for in a church?   Maybe it&#8217;s all the wrong things!    I like number ten.  The last sentence.   Read all ten warnings here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] David Fitch&#8217;s &#8220;A Warning List for Those Who Would Join a Missional Church Gathering&#8221; at his blog, Reclaiming The Mission, has a lot more substance to be limited to just the missional conversation.   What do you look for in a church?   Maybe it&#8217;s all the wrong things!    I like number ten.  The last sentence.   Read all ten warnings here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JT</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12210</link>
		<dc:creator>JT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12210</guid>
		<description>I appreciated this list a lot and as a recovering youth pastor I especially resonate with #5.

Grace and peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciated this list a lot and as a recovering youth pastor I especially resonate with #5.</p>
<p>Grace and peace.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12105</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12105</guid>
		<description>Nate,
exactly righto ... you could tell I was writing out of being &quot;p--ed off,&quot; and I think your comments ...&quot;the quickest way for the missional conversation to die is for us to start thanking God that we are NOT like those attractional folks&quot; are also right on ... for this seems to be the very problem of so much of the church&#039;s current day politic - that antagonism that always runs it into a dead end ... 
Thanks 
DF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate,<br />
exactly righto &#8230; you could tell I was writing out of being &#8220;p&#8211;ed off,&#8221; and I think your comments &#8230;&#8221;the quickest way for the missional conversation to die is for us to start thanking God that we are NOT like those attractional folks&#8221; are also right on &#8230; for this seems to be the very problem of so much of the church&#8217;s current day politic &#8211; that antagonism that always runs it into a dead end &#8230;<br />
Thanks<br />
DF</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12104</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12104</guid>
		<description>I really like this list, as a whole.  

There were a couple instances where I thought the language got a little snarky.  &quot;Consumerist capitalist assumption&quot; seems both jargon-y and condescendingly superior.  It sounds like something used to dismiss others, as in, &quot;you just say that because of your consumerist capitalist assumptions.&quot; But the second sentence is awesome!  If I were to suggest a rewording, it might be &quot;Should not expect that Jesus will fit in with every ambition, lifestyle, schedule or accoutrement you may have adopted before coming here.&quot; I also thought the digs at church building campaigns was a little too specific. 

The reason this matters is that the quickest way for the missional conversation to die is for us to start thanking God that we are NOT like those attractional folks.  I&#039;ve seen this happen with much of the emerging church dialog, where it has become all about what we are NOT, and how the mainstream church SUCKS, instead of trying to lead by example with humility and forgiveness.

I also think it would help to clarify point #5, especially about what one SHOULD expect.  Maybe this is something you could talk about in a future post, David.  The question of children and youth is a huge issue in my own context.  How do you keep children a central part of the life of the church gathering, without losing the attention of either them or the adults?  If the gathering is about spiritual formation, then it makes sense to tailor a program (oh no! not THAT word!) of some sort for children, because their needs are different from adults.  Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like this list, as a whole.  </p>
<p>There were a couple instances where I thought the language got a little snarky.  &#8220;Consumerist capitalist assumption&#8221; seems both jargon-y and condescendingly superior.  It sounds like something used to dismiss others, as in, &#8220;you just say that because of your consumerist capitalist assumptions.&#8221; But the second sentence is awesome!  If I were to suggest a rewording, it might be &#8220;Should not expect that Jesus will fit in with every ambition, lifestyle, schedule or accoutrement you may have adopted before coming here.&#8221; I also thought the digs at church building campaigns was a little too specific. </p>
<p>The reason this matters is that the quickest way for the missional conversation to die is for us to start thanking God that we are NOT like those attractional folks.  I&#8217;ve seen this happen with much of the emerging church dialog, where it has become all about what we are NOT, and how the mainstream church SUCKS, instead of trying to lead by example with humility and forgiveness.</p>
<p>I also think it would help to clarify point #5, especially about what one SHOULD expect.  Maybe this is something you could talk about in a future post, David.  The question of children and youth is a huge issue in my own context.  How do you keep children a central part of the life of the church gathering, without losing the attention of either them or the adults?  If the gathering is about spiritual formation, then it makes sense to tailor a program (oh no! not THAT word!) of some sort for children, because their needs are different from adults.  Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Waring List for Missional Communities &#171; Christ Mission at the Bricklight</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12094</link>
		<dc:creator>Waring List for Missional Communities &#171; Christ Mission at the Bricklight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12094</guid>
		<description>[...] List for Missional&#160;Communities  21 10 2009   David Fitch recently posted a “warning list” for those who are considering joining a missional church/community.  I think it applys to what we are doing at Christ Mission as well.  I pray, indeed, that it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] List for Missional&nbsp;Communities  21 10 2009   David Fitch recently posted a “warning list” for those who are considering joining a missional church/community.  I think it applys to what we are doing at Christ Mission as well.  I pray, indeed, that it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Coker</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12056</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Coker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12056</guid>
		<description>Arrogant indeed...in the best sense of the word. I like it. What would I add? Probably something about not expecting to be a spectator, but expecting to be immersed directly in the family business of mission.

M Leary, 

I would suggest that the only thing keeping your church from maintaining the missional ethos at a larger size is the insistence on certain forms of centralization (perhaps preaching by a certain limited group, perhaps a salaried staff, perhaps a value for certain forms of childcare..?). Size alone is no inhibitor. Alcoholics Anonymous is much bigger than your church by far and yet remains fundamentally missional to the core.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arrogant indeed&#8230;in the best sense of the word. I like it. What would I add? Probably something about not expecting to be a spectator, but expecting to be immersed directly in the family business of mission.</p>
<p>M Leary, </p>
<p>I would suggest that the only thing keeping your church from maintaining the missional ethos at a larger size is the insistence on certain forms of centralization (perhaps preaching by a certain limited group, perhaps a salaried staff, perhaps a value for certain forms of childcare..?). Size alone is no inhibitor. Alcoholics Anonymous is much bigger than your church by far and yet remains fundamentally missional to the core.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Brisco</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12055</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Brisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12055</guid>
		<description>I like it, especially the &quot;expect&quot; for each point. Look forward to hearing from you here in KC later this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like it, especially the &#8220;expect&#8221; for each point. Look forward to hearing from you here in KC later this week.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/a-warning-list-for-those-who-would-join-a-missional-church-gathering-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12051</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=691#comment-12051</guid>
		<description>All these points hang together, of course, but I have recently been mulling over point 8 in particular.

We attend a church that describes itself as missional and experienced even more growth than that in a three year period. It may once have been a missional community, and still retains some of this ethos in its community group system and preaching. But as it grew so quickly it had to develop a number of exterior programs designed to take keep up with its missional goals to artists, inner city development projects, and the pastoral care of its own flock.

We all attend the weekly services in great numbers, and many may participate in one of these exterior programs in a cursory way over the course of a year. But by and large, these programs are taken care of by a very small fraction of the overall church such that the entire body has become missional-by-proxy.

It has done well at maintaining a missional vibe across its large multi-campus membership, but the actual external missional embodiment of the gospel in our local context happens mainly through these proxy channels. I don&#039;t see how a church of this size could do it any differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these points hang together, of course, but I have recently been mulling over point 8 in particular.</p>
<p>We attend a church that describes itself as missional and experienced even more growth than that in a three year period. It may once have been a missional community, and still retains some of this ethos in its community group system and preaching. But as it grew so quickly it had to develop a number of exterior programs designed to take keep up with its missional goals to artists, inner city development projects, and the pastoral care of its own flock.</p>
<p>We all attend the weekly services in great numbers, and many may participate in one of these exterior programs in a cursory way over the course of a year. But by and large, these programs are taken care of by a very small fraction of the overall church such that the entire body has become missional-by-proxy.</p>
<p>It has done well at maintaining a missional vibe across its large multi-campus membership, but the actual external missional embodiment of the gospel in our local context happens mainly through these proxy channels. I don&#8217;t see how a church of this size could do it any differently.</p>
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