Incarnational: A Fad?
Wednesday, December 27, 2006
It's strange to hear the words "incarnational" and "fad" together during this time of celebrating the incarnational birth of the Son. And I wasn't going to post anymore on "incarnational" and the missional church on this blog after the last post. But then Mark Van Steenwyk, on his excellent blog, quotes this piece from N.T. Wright (from a recent CT Article What Is This Word?) on the fad of incarnational theology. It kind of sums up the debate I was seeking to carry out this past month on this blog. Here's the quote:
There is a fad in some quarters about a “theology of incarnation,” meaning that our task is to discern what God is doing in the world and to do it with him. But that is only half the truth, and the wrong half to start with. John’s theology of the Incarnation is about God’s Word coming as light into darkness, as a hammer that breaks the rock into pieces, as a fresh word of judgment and mercy. You might as well say that an incarnational missiology is about discovering what God is saying no to today and finding out how to say it with him. That was the lesson Barth and Bonhoeffer had to teach in Germany in the 1930s, and it’s all too relevant as today’s world becomes simultaneously more liberal and more totalitarian. This Christmas, get real, get Johannine, and listen again to the strange words spoken by the Word made flesh.
For those reacting to evangelical fundamentalism like myself and many other emerging church types, this may sound sectarian, fundamentalist. Mark claims it may be Anabaptist in vision. Of course Barth and Bonhoeffer were none of these. In my posts below I was arguing against those who would reduce the gathering to a secondary function in the incarnational view of church and mission. Ironically, for me, N T Wright is close to doing the opposite here. Wright is close to going to the opposite extreme: reducing to "non-redemptive" all activity in the world that is not involved with the mission/witness of Christ in the church. Yet I believe either a Barthian primacy of the incoming Word (N T Wright?), or a Radical Anabaptist primacy of the faithful community (withdrawing from the world to maintain faithfulness), is inadequate on its own to address the church's "sentness" into the world. Neither is adequate for where we must go as "missional church." This is why many times I am blessed to turn to John Howard Yoder, a Radical Anabaptist who did his Ph.D. with Barth in Basil. He holds together the a.) radical Anabaptist vision together with b.) the Barthian radicalness of the inbreaking Word, with c.) the missional presense and aggressive posture of the "community for the world ," better than anyone else I know!
What's your take on N.T. Wright? and "incarnational"?Peace ... on Christmas
Posted by David Fitch | 7:19 AM
COMMENTS:
Intriguing, and important.. in some ways this was part of my own direction in blogging prior to Christmas.. even though I felt like a scrooge.
perhaps its inevitable, though, that some very deep ideas get reduced to mere shadows of their original depth.. it's not easy to hold all the pieces together, particularly when they are merely ideas and have moved beyond our common experience.. and in fact our experience is more attuned to western culture than to kingdom culture anyway.
12:05 PM
One other thought.. I'm convinced that errors at either end are almost always rooted in a practical gnosticism. I haven't had time to work this through in this particular debate, but one can see how the category would apply so well.. gnosticism.. dualism.. pushes us to either materialism or spiritualism.. where the radical middle always holds the Word and the Spirit together. Hmm.. now I am also thinking of the Chalcedonian formula.. and perhaps there would be some fruitful ground there for missional ecclesiology.
12:13 PM
I agree that "incarnational" ministry is a fad. It is deeply disturbing to me how some of the most important ideas of the past 25 years have been quickly packaged and distributed with some of the faint "odors" of the original ideas, yet with little of their depth. And so, "incarnational" becomes merely culturally-relevant (after a certain fashion) and "missional" becomes much of the same. I think it is a sign of our internet era that ideas have become hyper-commodified. It used to take generations for ideas to become stripped of their profundity (like the word "evangelical"). Now it takes about a decade.
Sorry if my thoughts sound cynical. I have a KILLER headache right now. :(
1:53 PM
Perhaps we can start by living Jesus and showing the world who Jesus is.
I agree "the finding out what Jesus is doing and join Him" is half wrong! Really it is more than half wrong. Jesus already gave us the what He is doing in Scripture and the why He came to earth and now all we need to do is obey Him by getting out of the box (where we are held hostage) called the church (westernized Christianity) . Blackaby totally missed it on this one. We already know what God blesses and what He calls us to do. When we do what He says we should do in the world -He is certainly with us just as He promised He would (Matthew 28:19 ff) Do what Jesus told us to do in the purposes of the Great Commission and look for Him to show up.
Let's stop living predominatly in Orthodoxy and let's allow Orthopraxy into the church world. When we do what's right we will believe correctly. When all we do is think or believe what is right -we usually never get around to doing (living) it. Afterall, it's the American way isn't it?
Incarnational ministry has to do with the orthopraxy that Hellenistic influence left out of the creeds but is found over and over in the gospel record. Incarnational and missional transformation is not a fad.
Now that I'm fired up I'll look Mark in the eye and ask Him why He thinks what we are doing is so great or not great. Westernized Christianity is dying! Does anyone want to keep doing what we are doing? I call seeker sensitive,programmed based, come and see, and new styles of worship a fad. What will work is a reintroduction of New Testament "Jesus" living into the world where we "move out" and show the world who Jesus is as the main thing.
Did anyone ever stop to think that Sunday after Church is the worse day in the life of a wiatress? Is that what we want? Let's become incarnational so that we act like Jesus instead of like good church members.
If 'incarnational and missional are fads - I have no hope. I certainly don't have any hope in a flawed western influenced Christianity. If incarnational is flawed then the predicted 80% of the churches in America will die in the next 20 years. If it is flawed let's just close shop. Jesus is who the world needs to see and since He has to be seen through good members we better get off our butts and start acting and living the way Jesus lived and taught.
What in the world are we thinking. Now my sarcasm erupts. Why would we think what we (MAN) can do better than what God can do or what He told us to do? God told us in His word to show the world who He is. We are the salt and light that leads the unreached to Jesus and as I learned in my elementary years we have hidden him under a bush "yes" instead of "no".
Hellenistic influence in the creeds brought Orthodoxy at the forefront and cleverly left Orthopraxy out.
Living as a Jesus rep. is not a fad it is just ignored by the churh in America. Thats our greatest accomlishment or is it the worse? God help us! Missional is needed because we have our own agenda and not the agenda of Jesus which has everything to do with His mission.
I'm not always right and I readily admit it before our cyber world. BUT this I am sure - we must be incarnational people who engage the mission of Jesus! What are we thinking? The church is dying and the answer is looking us right in the eye.
Incarnational a fad? Missional a fad? If it is than Jesus must be a fad. Come on guys!
Bold, strong, crazy for Jesus and easily written off when challenging others,
Bob
Sorry Mark and others - but I'm not really sorry.
3:53 PM
So guys how can move from what we perceive to be a fad (incarnational & missional) in America to becoming the real thing? How can we lead a movement of incarnational and missional Christ followers?
6:26 PM
Bob...I'm not saying being incarnational or missional is bad or faddish (in the deepest sense of the words). However, the way some folks use these terms and articulate their implications has become faddish. Everyone seems to be using these terms and so many of them seem to be missing the point (in my opinion).
Your question of "how" is the right question to ask. The only answer I have is this: let's do what we say ought to be done, and recruit others to do likewise. Meanwhile, we must resist the impulse that would have us hold back and soften our witness in efforts to be superficially relevant or appealing.
6:33 AM
mark - it seems to me that is exactly what richard foster was saying a few years ago about 'spiritual formation'. spiritual formation is neither bad nor faddish, yet everyone seemed to be jumping on the spiritual formation 'bandwagon' (and many missing the point). again, like len, it makes me think of Chalcedonian formula and the ability to walk the radical middle of Word and Spirit...
peace
10:35 AM
When I read "Finding out what God is saying no to today and finding out how to say it with him" I was reminded of Moltmann's words about God's everlasting word being "YES!"
7:12 PM
Len ... I like your suggestion about Gnosticism ... I have found Radical Orthodoxy - Milbank etc. ... helpful in understanding how the modernist move from (knowledge based in)analogy to nominalism created such a nihilist tendency in all our theology. This, I believe coincides with your comment on gnosticism ... that separates creation from the "life of the creator".. . if that made any sense .. sorry we'll have to talk ...
Thanks for these other great comments ... although wasn't Moltmann basically working in opposition to Barth in this regard? I can't remember ... havn't read Moltmann in fifteen-twenty years (shows how old I am) Kirk - explain that one to me - especially with your last name.
Finally, Bob ... we need a cup of coffee eh?(I'm an old Canadian-I still say "eh?")... are you preaching a simplistic "get out there and disciple message"... ignoring the theological basis and conditions for such discpleship that led us into the current tragic mess in the first place? (I refer to the current mess of the attractional evangelical church in N America that neither lives, disciples or engages in mission) ... I'd like to know Bob, more of what your theological thinking is on these issues rather than your rightful preaching that we need to get outside the church, be more missional, making more disciples ... Love you man... just pushing you here ... for that cup of coffee.
Blessings on this 5th day of Christmas
6:41 AM
David, I share your question re: Moltmann.. one of those guys on my "to read soon" list.. but Barth was quick to emphasize both the "yes" and the "no" of God.. because He is totally other.. and also radically immanent in Jesus. Barth totally rejected any possibility of natural theology. The language of dialetic is the language of paradox.. and the paradox of transcendence and immanence is another lens that could be used alongside the Chalcedonian creed. The following from Barth's "Epistle to the Romans.."
God, the pure limit and pure beginning of all that we are, have, and do, standing over in infinite qualitative difference to man and all that is human, nowhere and never identical with that which we call God, experience, surmise, and pray to as God, the unconditioned Halt as opposed to all human rest, the yes in our no and the no in our yes, the first and last and as such unknown, but nowhere and never a magnitude amongst others in the medium known to us, God the Lord, the Creator and Redeemer . . . that is the living God.
11:48 AM
DAVE, No and Yes. No I have not ignored any theology. We are good at Orthodoxy and we are not good at othopraxy.And yes to moving out as Incarnational Christ reprentatives in the world. Today I am Praying for LaVerne an african American I met at a restaurant last night. Come on my friend, a cup of coffee covers a multitude of something.
Why do we ever resist the teaching of Jesus? Of course not you, I agree! Did He not make it clear? Am I a weirdo? What am I missing?
11:18 PM
Bob,
Welcome to wierdo-dome. Join me. I think Jesus hangs out here sometimes too.
:)
1:34 AM
Kierkegaard said leap on the strength of the absurd.
6:40 AM
I with you guys! Let's just knock the ball out for Jesus! Knock some heads while you are at it.
7:18 PM
Dave, When and wherecan we meet for the brew so we can stew a bit? The sad thing is I love to be right and this time you probably are. We are mor eont he same page than off. Coffee? Maybe I should buy! When? Where?
Great post and comments. Keep writing and I'll kep messing things up because I do that well.
7:48 PM
Boy I'm glad this conversation is over! I cannot believe you are letting me have the last weirdo blog word.
What a blessing!
7:29 PM
It's either that or discuss sports anologys
2:43 PM
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