A Warning List For Those Who Would Join a Missional Church Gathering
Sunday, November 05, 2006
Having planted a missional church from 10 people, and having gone through much pain and joy, I have wondered … what if you could warn people up front what this all would mean for their lives and expectations before they started gathering together. What expectations would you warn those first gathering people against? And if you did deliver such a warning list , would there be anyone left to gather? It’s kind of like marriage, or doing a Ph.D… if you truly knew the cost going in would you still do it? But looking back after going through it, you wouldn’t give up the experience and joy for anything. So perhaps it is best for people NOT to know all of what they (and you) are going to have to go through in a missional church plant.
Of course, I couldn’t have written such a warning because I did not even know all of what I was getting into and what God was calling us to.
Neverthless, looking back, here’s what my warning list would like like to all those who would join a missional church gathering. As Life on the Vine looks to plant another gathering in the future, maybe such a warning list would ease the way for them. Would you give such a list to people as you begin a church gathering? What expectations would you warn against?
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TEN THINGS ANYONE WHO JOINS IN A TWENTY FIRST CENTURY MISSIONAL CHURCH PLANT SHOULD NOT EXPECT
1.) Should not expect to regularly come to church for just one hour, get what you need for your own personal growth and development, and your kid’s needs, and then leave til next Sunday. Expect mission to change your life. Expect however a richer life than you could have ever imagined.
2.) Should not expect that Jesus will fit in with every consumerist capitalist assumption, lifestyle, schedule or accoutrement you may have adopted before coming here. Expect to be freed from a lot of crap you will find out you never needed.
3.) Should not expect to be anonymous, unknown or be able to disappear in this church Body. Expect to be known and loved, supported in a glorious journey.
4.) Should not expect production style excellence all the time on Sunday worship gatherings. Expect organic, simple and authentic beauty.
5.) Should not expect a raucous "light out" youth program that entertains the teenagers, puts on a show that gets the kids "pumped up," all without parental involvement. Instead as the years go by, with our children as part of our life, worship and mission (and when the light shows dim and the cool youth pastor with the spiked hair burns out) expect our youth to have an authentic relationship with God thru Christ that carries them through a lifetime of journey with God.
6.) Should not expect to always "feel good,"or ecstatic on Sunday mornings. Expect that there will ALSO be times of confession, lament, self-examination and just plain silence.
7.) Should not expect a lot of sermons that promise you God will prosper you with "the life you've always wanted" if you’ll just believe Him and step out on faith and give some more money for a bigger sanctuary. Expect sustenance for the journey.
8.) Should not expect rapid growth whereby we grow this church from 10 to a thousand in three years. Expect slower organic inefficient growth that engages people’s lives where they are at and sees troubled people who would have nothing to do with the gospel marvelously saved.
9.) Should not expect all the meetings to happen in a church building. Expect a lot of the gatherings will be in homes, or sites of mission.
10.) Should not expect arguments over style of music, color of carpet, or even doctrinal outlier issues like dispensationalism. Expect mission to drive the conversation.
O AND BY THE WAY … Should not expect that community comes to you …. I am sorry but true community in Christ will take some "effort"and a reshuffling of priorities for both you and your kids. Yes I know you want people to come to you and reach out to you and you’re hurting and busy. But assuming you are a follower of Christ (this message is not for strangers to the gospel) you must learn that the answer to all those things is to enter into the practices of "being the Body" in Christ, including sitting, eating, sharing and praying together.
If anyone out there is interested in this kind of place … join us or another missional church gathering somewhere.
Posted by David Fitch | 8:41 PM
COMMENTS:
Hey Dave,
Check out this article from Newsweek/msnbc:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15566389/site/newsweek/
T. Pacey
8:20 AM
I read that article Mr. T. Pacey, and found it to be awsome.
And DF - liked the post...again.
Jason
11:03 AM
great post - thank you! As planters of a missional church, we have had to struggle with peoples expectations about church. Its been hard sometimes.
8:14 AM
Right on, Dave. I am re-posting this list on my blog.
10:40 AM
Great thoughts, thanks Dave.
Did you know that when you type an apostrophe mark it appears on the blog as [â (Euro currency symbol) TM (superscript)], and when you type exclamation mark it comes out [â (Euro currency symbol) ¦]? Doesn't affect what you say, but makes reading it a bit choppy :)
Dana Ames
2:10 PM
Amazing list
Hope you don't mind, but I'd like to clip the list and put it on my own blog
2:11 PM
Euro currency symbols also make for tasty snacks. I think that was Dave's point.
T. Pacey
3:29 PM
A brilliant insight. I'll be linking to it over at FoM. This needs a wide circulation.
3:45 PM
Great David!
That describes my experience very well!!
I'll be posting a link
4:54 PM
This is GREAT! Thanks!!!
7:20 PM
thanks David, you've put into words what I intuitively feel is crucial and have experienced!
11:07 PM
Great post.
So how's it going? Are you finding people who indeed want to be missional disciples?
5:43 AM
Ialso think people should be aware of that there will not be a doctrinal bullet statement. That theological discussion is in progress, and if your parents doesn´t like you to play in a construction site (and they still control your choices), it´s better to go somewhere else.
1:46 PM
Maybe one more: People should not expect this to be a place where they can "be used in their gifts" or "grow their ministry", if you have a gift for what needs to be done, great! Otherwide do it anyway. The only thing we are interested in growing is the kingdom of God and it´s influence on us, our lives and the community.
1:53 PM
Thank you so much for this list. I am actually a seminarian going through some discussions with classmates and a professor about "missional" and this concise, lucid list is great.
ajh
9:59 PM
David,
Thanks for this. It will be helpful for us.
(I'm also experiencing the display glitch for special characters.)
We have to have that conversation some time.
Thanks,
Rod
5:41 AM
As a missional church planter I really appreciate your thoughts on this. They are both affirmation and challenge.
Way to hold the kingdom out before us.
Andre
7:53 AM
wow!! .. awesome response and suggestions ... I must say that I am encouraged to walk faithfully through all of your remarks and suggestions ...
And as for the display glitch..I am tryign to get that fixed ... but I know you all can fix it on most of your browsers by going to View and cicking on universal (or some variant of) code
Blessings
9:26 AM
I stumbled upon your blog here and enjoyed your post. I am a pastor in a mainline denomination and I am trying to help our congregation focus more missionally. I understand the need for church planting and being intentional about mission, but I wonder why this list if for "missional church plants" as opposed to anyone who wants to really be the church. The question is rhetorical, I suppose, but it does bother me that many churches in my experience are lacking in proper scriptural ecclesiology.
Anyway, I linked to this post. Nice work.
10:44 AM
mo fast ... excellent question. I think one of the reasons why new church plants/gatherings are the focus is because so many have given up being able to lead existing congregations to a missional identity. I believe it is one of the most excruciating if not impossible tasks I can think of thru much experience thru friends around me. Nonetheless, I don't believe church plants should in any way be construed as anything less than an extension of the existing church/embodied peoples in the existing historical traditions of the church. I urge missional leaders to think within current denominational/tradition relationships.
Blessings
1:35 PM
Nonetheless, I don't believe church plants should in any way be construed as anything less than an extension of the existing church/embodied peoples in the existing historical traditions of the church.
I agree completely. I guess I am just frustrated that the missional thinking isn't at least held up as "this should be the norm". What does it say about the state of the American church that Missional Church planting is a minority segment within the "Church"?
Also, I just wanted to make sure I was clear that my comment about scriptural ecclesiology was not aimed at missional planting, but instead at churches that exist for themselves.
Finally, part of my frustration comes from the fact that there are many good people that are in churches that are not in the type of environment that encourages a lot of spiritual growth. The situations you describe above call for a maturation of believers. It is a difficult journey, but it is one that is a part of our faith journey. For churches to allow people to never grow up is a disservice to the congregations in the long run.
I'm enjoying your thoughts as I am trying to figure out myself what exactly God is calling me to do.
2:46 PM
"The situations you describe above call for a maturation of believers. It is a difficult journey, but it is one that is a part of our faith journey. For churches to allow people to never grow up is a disservice to the congregations in the long run."
Good words mofast ... just this week we have been talking about the need to be patient, walk alongside people, and be a place of transformation ...places of worship and spiirtual disciplines where people can grow beyond themselves into Christ, His Kingdom and mission.
I am slowly reaching the conclusion however that if some folk are walking among us for three years ... and not responding to God and what He is doing ... it may be the approriate time to ask, why are you here?
Blessings on all this ..
DF
8:25 PM
You said: "...so many have given up being able to lead existing congregations to a missional identity. I believe it is one of the most excruciating if not impossible tasks I can think of... "
David - thanks for you list - I enjoyed reading it and will be retaining it for future use. I have been involved for the past 3 or so years in leading an established evangelical congregation down the missional/incarnational path - this has happened without any knowledge of the emerging movement, at least until very recently, when I was so excited to find that others, all over the world, are also involved in a similar move of the Spirit.
As we get further into the missional approach though I am starting to find the going is getting harder and harder - particularly because we are an older congregation (my wife and I are the youngest members and we are in our early 30s) - and it is becoming increasingly difficult to make the big moves that we need to make if we are going to continue to be effective. Our decision making processes take months (up to 6 months) to work. We have a growing number of "fringe dwellers" on the edges of the church as a result of move into the community but they are not people who are willing to conform to our traditional ways of doing church - something many within our congregation seem to struggle with.
I would love to know of anyone who has been successful in implementing change in a traditional congregation. I hear a lot of how difficult it is - and I truly understand this. I am attempting to build a kind of dual model, keeping the traditional Sunday service but running an alternative as well, and think this may be a way around things. Do you know of anyone who has successfully achieved this? I want to keep what we are planning within the accountability structures of our established organisation and for it to be the alternative that becomes the standard as we move into the future - even if that future is still quite a way away.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Andrew
12:42 AM
11. Should expect ability to attend other churches to be ruined.
It is your fault, you know that Dave?
Mgpuma
5:08 AM
Andrew ...Jerry Frear at http://becomingmissional.blogspot.com/
might be a good conversation partner. He's been thru a transition ...although he is no longer pastor there. I'm going to add his blog to my list
And Mike ... once you go "missional" you can't go back ..
Blessings
5:51 AM
David. Question for ya. Seeing as you put a link to your church, I thought I would go and take a gander (though I have been there before). I noticed in your mission link in the section, "Into all the World" it says:
The Vine is a global congregation, not an American island dishing itself all the latest consumer goods.
Just wonder'n if there IS a place for "consumerist capitalist assumptions" on ANY LEVEL. If so, what would they be and how could we integrate them in church life if they should be integrated at all?
See, on the one hand, I hear a lot of disparagement in the church about how the culture has "infected" the church. This is clearly what you are saying in point number two and in your mission statement. And David Wells, as you may remember, had some pretty bitter words to say about the "therapeutic culture" infecting the church in his book, "No Place for Truth." And there are a host of other areas we could list, i.e. health and wealth gospel, an over-emphasis on the family, Kingdom Now theologies, the use of technologies in worship, Stephen Baldwins "Lord's Lounge" for evangelism, etc.
As I see it, all these "movements" or whatever you want to call them NEVER occur in a "contextual vacuum." That is, they always occur because there is something that is lacking in the church (a need of some sort) and those things move in to fill that need.
Now, when Mr. "the creature" above is thinking about having two different services, even here there is the idea of "meeting specific needs" some of which are culturally oriented and in stark contrast to emergent ways of doing things such that emergents might say, "Well, we don't do it that way anymore" (and for good reason).
I guess I'm more often trying to be charitable towards old ways of doing things. A sort of "go between" shunning modernist ways of doing things and understanding why they were done in the first place. I can't say I always jump on board and some things I downright cringe at, but I do wonder where the balance is sometimes (probably to be found living in tension with these things?).
What say ye?
P.S. By the way, your, "...once you go "missional" you can't go back..." Ummm...maybe it's just me? But I can see how some might take that the wrong way. ;-)
6:51 AM
Sorry -b ... didn't have that entendre in mind ... my bad ... as for your contextualization stuff ... excellent questions ... and I have some concerns that only way we can look at the consumerism issue/culture is in the classic contextualization methods as underwritten by the old Neiburian typologies ... I see the way forward differently ... but this kind of response probably demands a lengthy post in the future .. I'll give it a try in the nhear future .
.
Blessings !!!
7:48 AM
Just having a little fun wit dat. Ummm...about your Neiburian typologies...well, you better hop on that Mister! Would love to hear what you have to say. I as you, have some concerns with that as well i.e. his monolithic treatment of culture, and tunnel vision as noted by Sweet--not discerning good and bad in culture (there is always a mixture of truth and error, good and evil).
Could God not transcend Niebuhr's categories and work through each one?
Hmmmm...enquiring minds want to know. I look forward to it David. Thanks!
9:16 AM
Great post. I wondered a bit about the "doctrinal outlier issues" bit. Part of mission is having a message and knowing what it is, and part of Christian growth is learning the whole counsel of God. Otherwise, got the point and appreciated it.
9:38 AM
Wow, great post. I just wandered in here for the first time; I'm going to have to look around.
1:47 PM
David,
Excellent post!
These are the things that we should not expect, but they are things that far-too-often are what today's evangelical expects in church.
About three years into my church plant, I learned this. Too bad for us that people could not embrace missional over bland-old-evangelical!
7:30 AM
David thanks for the recommend and thanks for the great post.
Mind if I turn into a Power Point for my site?
9:46 PM
Jerry ... of course, no problem ...Blessings
3:54 AM
I posted it!
5:15 PM
Thanks for the encouraging list. As a seminarian preparing to plant a postmodern/emergent church i found the list useful and truthful.
www.tatum-lovewins.blogspot.com
Peace of Christ
David Tatum
1:19 PM
Thank you so much for this list! I wandered over here from jaime's site...we are a new missional/monastic church plant in the Twin Cities (MN) - actually a Covenant church. We are not even a year into this liminal place, but so much of what you describe here is our experience so far. Thank you for putting it in words. If it is alright, I will post your list on my site...
1:32 PM
May I be so bold to as to appear to disagree with all nodding heads? I post what I posted on another site that had linked to this post: another addendum to what the 21st century missional church should not expect -
Should not expect to hear that our brothers and sisters who live and practice their faith differently than what we do have faith and love as valid as ours, especially if they are in those nasty ‘former churches.’ After all, we have the corner on what a true life dedicated to Christ played out looks like (and feels like, and sounds like of course).
5:10 PM
one more - We should not expect to be let off the disciple making hook. All believers will be expected to make disciples who make disciples. The Great Commission of Jesus commands all of us to make disciples and it is as easy as building relationships that take time and often sacrifice on our part. Missional Church involves individuals in the Church (Christ family) engaging the world incarnationally so that all may see and know Him.
You are expected to make disciples who make disciples - I think Jesus said that! And if you think you can't make disciples it is because the church taught you that you cannotin the "come and" church. We are told, "You need to serve in the ministries that fit our mission." I think Jesus said, "And as you are going....I will be with you".
1:10 PM
the grim reaper pointing at duncan rouleau and his family, like jonah weiland, michael hull, todd callender, ismail kadare, janetmck, arron shutt, george doran, elizabeth shea, andy shaw, tom beland, kenley darling, quinling harlequin, david shapiro, Lynsae Harkins, cecil pennyton, joe lalich, dave karlotski, daugan, justin daniels davis, john mark pool, Shawn brown, tim baker, Josh McDowell, Erik A. Olson, Don Rose, YWAM Latvia, jose alvarez, dee finney, antonia vladimirova, katie bazor, amanda dee, jeff dee, reverend jeremy taylor, d.min, christina marie sanford, jean patrick charrey got Fazile Zahir got Zespó³ Doradców Gospodarczych, "TOR", Spó³ka, greg titus, mike kenney, Douglas L. Fagerstrom, Rick Frye, brian, bill of the massive bri, Bruce Ryskamp, lawrence forman, micheru mathys, dana tillusz, George Tramountanas, John Lawry, John Jaszcz, and Randy Williams, JK Rowling, Nakul Chander, Wally Schmidt, Kiel Nunn, nick field, Heuva, michael doran, Alexander McConnell, William Revell Moody, Arthur Percy Fitt, erick Fazile Zahir, Pastor Erick
Waukegan, IL
youth ministry liaison for the North Central Conference of the Free Methodist , blaine motsinger, Jerry Frear, Konstantin Ternianov, janet mcknight, Laurie Behncke, Heuva, Zespó³ Doradców Gospodarczych, "TOR", Spóka, Fazile Zahir richard starkings, joe kelly, mike hull, daniel kaps, diana hughey, Thom S. Rainer, Richard E. Lauersdorf, brian hirt, bill hamon Zespó³ Doradców Gospodarczych, "TOR", Spó³ka, Dann Pantoja, robert winer, paul dixon, rohn price, diana hughey, Mhada Oshiwara, Andheri West, dan kaps, Nicholson, Roy, Richard L. Reising, larry clow, Darrell G. Young, david reagan, Paul Sang, Valoria L. Cheek, Sabrina McKenzie Ministries, Delbert Enns, Rev. Dr. John H. Thompson, Sr, President, scott morton, John Drage, Pastor Bill Dornbush, Duane Ray, Ali Klees, Lawrence McCorkle Gill's family, CP-TEL, Jason Boyett, Stephen Felts, Kathy Lefler, Chris Bush, ARMEN BERJIKLY like Sabrina McKenzie, Frank Braun, Julia A. Spohrer, David Bearden, Al Jourgensen, Rick Warren, Stefanie Farrone, Len Kageler, Arthur Cherrie, R. Paul Stevens, Charles R. Shumate, Michael & Karen McDonald, Pat Verbal, Dr. mike Murdock, Phillip Butler, Ross Slaughter , Howard Culbertson, James L. Benedict, Michael Bartley, Carole Louise Sawatzky is lost, cut off saith God, John Freeman, Ed Young, Rick Cruse, Dr. Steve Stephens, dr. kara powell, Matt Woodley and Julie Woodley, Barry St. Clair, Chad Zaucha, Rick Warren, B.A. Cooley, Susan Riddle, Micah Andrews, scottie may, beth posterski, catherine stonehouse, linda cannell, Brian Kluth, Doug Diehnelt, Jennifer Gale, Paul McDonald, Eric Brass, Luke Brouillette, Doug Haugen and Andrew Bosch, Rev. Dr. M. Hadwin Fischer, howard culbertson, Paula M. Cavu and Dr Gavin Porter PhD, dr. sheikh muszaphar and dr. faiz Dann Pantoja, Lee Dodd, brandon teer, Hurckman, Art Beals, Dennis Edwards, Chris Forbes, Keith Page, ginny olson, diana elliot, and mike work, dave wilson, HB London and Neil B. Wiseman, Elizabeth House, josh hunt, Wszelkie prawa zastrzeżone, Jimmy Williams, Tim Boyd, Vic Kennett, Sr. M. Dolorosa, Richard Woughter, SeLahGirl, Daniel Brown, Eddy Hall, Gary & Carrie Espeseth, mn church planting, jared cramer, Paul and Agnès Sanders, these are all duncan rouleaus children, he wrote a book, with the stolen name ministry of dreams, they, most, posted his article, or stole, the name ministry of dreams to make prophet fall, all release ruint, this is duncan rouleaus family, they want Gods servant to fall,
5:10 PM
why is my name is the comment above... weird.
6:22 PM
I wonder if its come kind of advertising search tool that when people type in a phrase that is from the comment above into google, this web page comes up. I bet it is staying here on the page just for that reason. Otherwise the person that is maintaining this page would have deleted said comment, because it makes no sense at all. I left this comment on MAR19 2008. So now Im going to check this webpage tomorrow to see if the webmaster will delete this comment, because I called them out on it.
6:43 PM
My name appears in this blog under "prophecy ministry" as well and I too am wondering why. Any answers? Thanks! Lynsae Harkins
1:07 PM
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