Last Sunday, over at my house, we had a large group over for the Super Bowl. I ended up sitting with a lot of people in the room where there was no TV. I think we talked all night. I didn’t see one play of the football game (the Hamilton Tiger Cats weren’t playing). I’m sitting with George (name changed to protect the innocent) and we started talking about preaching.
He says the difference with Life on the Vine preaching …
“When I’ve been at other churches, I walk away saying “that is something I need to work on for my Christian life … At the Vine, I am confronted with a reality that I see I am not quite there yet and I’m invited to enter. I feel the tension. I can’t go there yet. I’m not ready. Yet I have to respond.”
Then he said, “ and when we have the communal response … it is so painful … because I know if I pray it out loud, if I respond and put it out there is words … things have forever changed …”
All this was unprovoked and fascinating for me to listen to. To me this illustrates the difference between teaching and preaching. Teaching is informational. We are digging in to the backgrounds, the meanings of words, explaining what the text means in terms of its original context. It is heavy with information. Preaching is proclamation. It declares the truth of God in Christ. It proclaims the reality of Jesus as Lord over us as we submit and what that means for our lives right here and right now. And then we are invited into that reality. And we have to respond to God, if we hear His voice. At the Vine, there is always a time after our preaching when we respond, most often in prayers of the people when we are given a liturgical prayer to fill in the blank for. Being in the midst of those prayers is an oasis of the Spirit. It always reminds me of the words of Paul – if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” The “being saved” that is happening here is the whole entering into the salvation that God is working in the world. This is why preaching can be God’s instrument to transform the world.
There is always the awkward moment after the gathering when I have preached. People don’t really know what to say. But I confess, one of the things that makes me cringe is when some one says “I really enjoyed your sermon.” Ouch. I know what they mean. And they are being incredibly encouraging. But when they say this it reminds too much of Zizek’s dictum (I’ve read too much Zizek I know) that saying “I enjoy my religion” implies I don’t take it too seriously. We keep it at a distance so as to appear to be a Christian with all the comforts and accoutrements yet not requiring any great disruption to a comfortable way of life. This distance is subtle. It was what George was describing so skillfully above. I think (and here I go being provocative again) classical expository preaching in our times borderlines on providing this distance. I think that’s ironic because I think it was originally devised to keep the preaching as close to the Word of God as possible. In the process it informationalized preaching. Gave us an excuse to say “hmmm, that is something I have to work on in my Christian life.” And we never get to it.
For all these reasons, I much prefer telling the preacher after the gathering: “Thank-you, God really used you to destroy my world today” (versus “I really enjoyed your sermon”). (BTW I only preach once a month). I find when someone would say that to me, it then gives me the moment to confess that I too have been destroyed and need to trust in Jesus as Lord to do His work in us. I confess I have had my world destroyed a few times this past 4 months at Life on the Vine gatherings, by the sermon or in worship. And it’s been good.
What do you think about all this? Too much? What would you prefer to say to the preacher (or have said to you after you’ve preached?) Is there something to be learned from George about the way we preach? How would you describe this experience? I’m speaking on “preaching as Spiritual Formation” at the Ecclesia National Gathering. If you’re coming, let’s dive into this issue.
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Since I've been interim pastoring here in the great white tundra of central NY, I've been battling the "I really enjoyed your sermon." or "Great sermon." It's obviously nice and all, but it seems to play into the performance side of things, even in a conservative Anglican church. I try and push back a little by saying, "We'll see what happens." This is somewhat of a reduced and paraphrased version of Marva Dawn's story in Reaching Out Without Dumbing Down where the preacher gets the same praise from the congregation. He says something similar in order to push them into action, not merely attending a show where the audience simply watches.
I know in my neck of the woods this is a much needed difference. So besides expository preaching, what would say is the best way to preach? (I won't be attending the National Gathering, but would love to hear more.)
To say to me "I loved your sermon" is indeed often the same thing as saying to me, "Thank you, for not challenging my entrenched beliefs too much, and for not forcing me to learn anything too new or difficult."
Granted, it's not what people intend to communicate…esp. for a young pastor like me, who often preaches for older populations that wish to sincerely "bless" me (and as it turns out, I'm a sucker for compliments.)
But after I'm done feeling really good about myself, and after having left the church that day, I admittedly begin to wonder if people really heard the piercing word of God.
Thanks for the post.
I really enjoyed your post today, Dave…nice job.
And if I've ever told you what a great sermon you preached please forgive me. 
Seriously, though, this is a good word. The comment by George, "that is something I need to work on" is spot on. This thinking allows us to dictate when and where God will work in our lives and enables us to pretend we are in control and can keep God in a little box. Thankfully, since we've been at LOV, God has continually been destroying "my world" and awakening me to kingdom life, through the liturgy, sermons, Missional Order, Triad, etc.
I like what the crowd cried out on the day of Pentecost at the end of the sermon……What must we do?
I have tried to avoid the stand at the door and get the "nice sermons" but it hasn't worked. I agree that a good response to "good sermon" is "that remains to be seen". In other words, if I am to judge the effectiveness of my sermons it's not on what people feel, but are lives changed?
While occasionally I might like to hear that I destroyed someone's world (in your sense of the words) I would also like to hear "thanks for smashing my idols and helping me remember that there is no God but God" or "when I came today, my world had been destroyed but now I know where to find the strength" or "I really appreciated your brilliant explanation of the Granville Sharp rule" (OK – that's one I NEVER hope to hear)
Typically, when I say to someone "I enjoyed your sermon" or something like it, I mean "God used it to speak to my heart". I often add that clarification knowing that performance is the thought lurking in the background. So, on the one hand, I understand the hesitation or disappointment a preacher may have in hearing those words, but on the other hand, it really depends on what is meant by "I enjoyed your sermon." I don't think that it always–for everyone–means, "that was a good performance, and by the way, thanks for making the last 30 minutes enjoyable."
Every functioning member of the Body can speak and prophesy. This is edifying to the Body. A meeting of worship that does not allow time for the members to prophesy focuses uniquely on the sermon, which should be not a sermon, but a message, a gospel, a good news, and a prophesying (forth telling the truth of God).
Good thoughts. I wonder, though, if the teaching/preaching dichotomy is completely helpful. I am not sure it has to be seen as one over and against the other. Couldn't expository teaching in the dialogical context of genuine community produce the "destroyed world" you speak of?
I think I am sensitive to this because early in pastoring our community- made up largely of 20 something singles- I realized that there were two significant dynamics at play: 1) Many people, even those who came from Christian homes, were deeply Biblically illiterate; and 2) those "sermons" that most moved them to experience "destroyed world" were often just that- experiences. It did not often produce any change beyond the "hit" of emotional experience.
Thanks again.
Great point, Jamie. There is room for both. So many people lack pieces of the puzzle (Biblical literacy, not to mention basic education) that teaching is absolutely necessary. Also, I've noticed that change rarely comes from an experience of a sermon or an "anointed" meeting. "Destroying worlds" is a long and tedious process.
At the Vine, we teach at 9 , and preach at 10:15 gathering … our hope is one bleeds over into the other … and vice versa …
That's a great idea, David.
I think this is what I recognize as transformational preaching (which can be done in a lot of different style-categories, including expository, though some do seem more conducive than others, and a transformational expository sermon just plain takes a lot of work). It's something I value most highly, but I've learned that it needs to go hand in hand with strong pastoral care insight and sensitivity and a whole congregation, leaders in particular, who affirm, support, and release the transformation called forth in individuals lives. It's amazing how many times, however unintentionally, the opposite is what happens.
I very much look forward to hearing more at the conference. Meantime, as per teaching/preaching distinctions, I found this little blurb from Packer (via iMonk) insightful:
"…somehow or other, opportunities must be given for folk in and just outside the churches to examine Christian essentials, because there are so many for whom this is a prime need. Preaching often does not help them, for preaching ordinarily assumes in both speaker and hearers confident certainty about the fundamentals of the faith, and where this is lacking, sermons are felt to be remote and even irritating because of what appear as their unexamined assumptions. But the proper place for examining, challenging, and testing the intellectual ABCs of Christianity is not the pulpit, but rather the systematic instruction given in catechetical teaching—at least, so Christian history suggests."
Enjoyed reading this. Some of us welcome, are made glad by, and deeply delight in being shaken a little (or a lot) and in the disequilibrium that comes from being drawn nearer to God; to our own needs for change, healing, repentance; and to God’s transformation of us, in us–however that comes, whether from the preaching or teaching, the music or the prayers, the silences, the seasons, the rustlings of humans hearing the words of God. Do most people mean the lighterweight or annoying interpretations taken of “Enjoyed the sermon”? Why not assume the best and that God is doing God’s work in each hearer, in God’s own time and ways that are not our own? Is “Thank you” an OK or better thing to say to the minister after the service? Do we really want everyone to be constantly careful about words and taking or giving offense? I don’t go to church to have my world destroyed but to worship, share in worship, grow in grace and truth. Thanks for the thoughts and stimulating others’.
I echo Julia. For those who truly seek after God’s heart, “I enjoyed the sermon” is equivalent to an Amen!